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Here in Amsterdam I feel it's the opposite. Next to the car roads we had beautiful biking infrastructure used by bikes going typically 10 to 15 km/h, averaging

Here in Amsterdam I feel it's the opposite. Next to the car roads we had beautiful biking infrastructure used by bikes going typically 10 to 15 km/h, averaging say 12km/h, used by virtually everyone, poor and rich, kids, students, parents, grandparents, there being more bikes than people in this city. Now the bicycle lanes are taken over by e-bikes going 25km/h and sometimes (illegally, as these must be on the car road) 'speedbikes' going 45 km/h. It used to be that if you go say 12km/h, virtually every other bike will also go that speed +/- 3 k/m. With a speed difference of only 3km/h, that meant two things: 1) overtaking each other happens, but only every now and then. And (2) you only need to watch a few metres behind you before overtaking, because no bike in the bike-lane could overtake you from further away at such small speed differences. Now with e-bikes going 25, you're sharing a lane with people who're on average going twice as fast as you. That means you're being overtaken constantly. It also means overtaking yourself requires much more thought and you need to look much further behind you. Overtaking is statistically the area where most accidents happen, increasing the frequency so much is causing a lot of issues. Second, the 2x as high speeds increase the brake distance by a lot, requires much faster reaction times, and increases the force and damage upon accidents. It's making me less prone to cycle, and for my parents its becoming outright dangerous to share the bike lane with bikes going 2-3x his speed. My dad broke his hip last year biking already. I'm super enthusiastic about electric bikes, it makes a lot of sense on many levels. But I'm also a bit scared of what the future holds. In Amsterdam the shift from bikes to e-bikes I feel is turning a great situation for everyone, into an even better situation for some (young e-bike users without issues) and a horrible situation for others (young children, elderly, those who get caught up in accidents) There's a reason that in recent years in Amsterdam gas-powered and electric scooters were taken off the bike lane and a mandatory helmet was introduced. Yet when recreating such a scooter similarly with some pedals, it circumvents the regulation.

cameronh90 5y ago
Why do adults cycle so slowly there though? 12km/h is a moderate running pace. I actually find with my ebike, I cruise more slowly than with a regular bike. An ebike is heavier with bigger tyres but the assist cuts out at 25km/h and I can't push it much faster. Whereas with my regular bike, I typically cruise at 30-35kmh. And I'm fat with the cheapest bike I could find. Plenty of people overtake me (in London). E-bikes make accelerating and hills much easier though.
- dncornholio 5y ago
  Because adults don't cycle for exercise, they cycle to get somewhere, preferably not being sweaty and out of breath.
  - watwut 5y ago
    It is exercise. Just not an intensive one. It is way more exercise then driving car.
    - dukeyukey 5y ago
      Sure, but when I'm cycling to work, my primary goal isn't exercise; it's to get to work. So I'm gonna do things that optimise for getting to work in a reasonable state, rather than optimising for exercise.
- stefs 5y ago
  > Whereas with my regular bike, I typically cruise at 30-35kmh. sorry, but i find that a bit hard to believe. i'm very fit and going 30-35km/h on my bike for distances any longer than sprints is quite hard.
  - cameronh90 5y ago
    35km/h may be a push but 30km/h is fairly easy to maintain for me. Perhaps you have a different style of bike? Mine is a city bike with very narrow wheels.
  - wl 5y ago
    Your bike might have issues, your posture might not be very aero, you might not be using your gears to maintain an efficient cadence, or your fitness isn't as good as you think. Play around with the following calculator: https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html Just using the default numbers of a 75 kg rider on a 7.7 kg bike with a frontal area of 0.5 m^2, C_d = 0.63, and drivetrain loss of 2%, maintaining 30 km/hr requires approximately 150 W of output. 35 km/hr, that goes up to 225 W. A functional threshold power (power one can sustain for an hour) of 200 W isn't exceptional. Anecdotally, I have a lot of weight to lose and I can maintain an average moving speed of 30 km/hr on a mostly flat, 100 km course.
entropicgravity 5y ago
The solution here is speed limits on bike baths for both e and pedal bikes. And yes, monitored with speed guns. Where I live the competitive cyclists are (almost) never on the bike paths in any case, they do their workouts on minor roads with little traffic.
- WelcomeShorty 5y ago
  > The solution here is speed limits on bike baths He speaks about Amsterdam, there is no such thing as law enforcement there, specifically when it comes to bikes & mopeds. Whether it is about stealing or selling stolen bikes, speed limits or zebra crossings, cycling on sidewalks or against traffic, nothing stops anyone to do whatever they want. Source: born and raised there.
lmm 5y ago
Hmm, it feels e-bikes over here (Tokyo) are most popular with the elderly (or cargo bikes doing deliveries) - young fit people ride faster than 25kph without assistance. Though a law-abiding culture and highly publicised cases of heavy fines for illegal models probably help.

cameronh90 5y ago

Why do adults cycle so slowly there though? 12km/h is a moderate running pace. I actually find with my ebike, I cruise more slowly than with a regular bike. An ebike is heavier with bigger tyres but the assist cuts out at 25km/h and I can't push it much faster. Whereas with my regular bike, I typically cruise at 30-35kmh. And I'm fat with the cheapest bike I could find. Plenty of people overtake me (in London). E-bikes make accelerating and hills much easier though.

dncornholio 5y ago
Because adults don't cycle for exercise, they cycle to get somewhere, preferably not being sweaty and out of breath.
- watwut 5y ago
  It is exercise. Just not an intensive one. It is way more exercise then driving car.
  - dukeyukey 5y ago
    Sure, but when I'm cycling to work, my primary goal isn't exercise; it's to get to work. So I'm gonna do things that optimise for getting to work in a reasonable state, rather than optimising for exercise.
stefs 5y ago
> Whereas with my regular bike, I typically cruise at 30-35kmh. sorry, but i find that a bit hard to believe. i'm very fit and going 30-35km/h on my bike for distances any longer than sprints is quite hard.
- cameronh90 5y ago
  35km/h may be a push but 30km/h is fairly easy to maintain for me. Perhaps you have a different style of bike? Mine is a city bike with very narrow wheels.
- wl 5y ago
  Your bike might have issues, your posture might not be very aero, you might not be using your gears to maintain an efficient cadence, or your fitness isn't as good as you think. Play around with the following calculator: https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html Just using the default numbers of a 75 kg rider on a 7.7 kg bike with a frontal area of 0.5 m^2, C_d = 0.63, and drivetrain loss of 2%, maintaining 30 km/hr requires approximately 150 W of output. 35 km/hr, that goes up to 225 W. A functional threshold power (power one can sustain for an hour) of 200 W isn't exceptional. Anecdotally, I have a lot of weight to lose and I can maintain an average moving speed of 30 km/hr on a mostly flat, 100 km course.

entropicgravity 5y ago

The solution here is speed limits on bike baths for both e and pedal bikes. And yes, monitored with speed guns. Where I live the competitive cyclists are (almost) never on the bike paths in any case, they do their workouts on minor roads with little traffic.

WelcomeShorty 5y ago
> The solution here is speed limits on bike baths He speaks about Amsterdam, there is no such thing as law enforcement there, specifically when it comes to bikes & mopeds. Whether it is about stealing or selling stolen bikes, speed limits or zebra crossings, cycling on sidewalks or against traffic, nothing stops anyone to do whatever they want. Source: born and raised there.

lmm 5y ago

Hmm, it feels e-bikes over here (Tokyo) are most popular with the elderly (or cargo bikes doing deliveries) - young fit people ride faster than 25kph without assistance. Though a law-abiding culture and highly publicised cases of heavy fines for illegal models probably help.