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> They will be a big driver of shifting more car trips to other modes. And shifting more families to owning fewer, or even no cars. When we need fewer cars, tha

> They will be a big driver of shifting more car trips to other modes. And shifting more families to owning fewer, or even no cars. When we need fewer cars, that means we can build less parking, which lowers prices at grocery stores, restaurants, and other places. It lets us build things closer together, allowing us to build what consumers want — walkable neighborhoods like Culdesac Tempe. Simply put, the biggest impediment to me using a bicycle now is that I don't really feel safe taking a bicycle to most places I want to go (or at least I'd have to carefully plan my route in a way that I don't to drive). E-bikes could help me cover a bigger range but I don't think they're going to solve that problem.

lmm 5y ago
> E-bikes could help me cover a bigger range but I don't think they're going to solve that problem. Popularity is the solution to that though, and e-bikes help with that. As more people shift from cars to bikes we can and should narrow roads and lower speed limits, which will in turn help more people shift from cars to bikes, and so on.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  They could just end up in a similar place to bikes now, enjoyed primarily for recreation rather than as a practical means of transportation.
  - lmm 5y ago
    (FWIW that's not at all true where I live: bikes here are practical transport first, recreation is the exception rather than the rule). The article addresses that: ebikes don't have much advantage over a regular bike for recreation, they're popular because of their practicality advantages.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      I wouldn’t say that. They’re good if you want to bike with someone more experienced, or over terrain tougher than you’re used to.
  - dncornholio 5y ago
    Only true if you live in a country with bad infra
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      No kidding. We’re talking about whether e-bikes becoming more popular would create the impetus to reconfigure infrastructure for e-bikes. If you already have great bike infrastructure it’s irrelevant.
- IkmoIkmo 5y ago
  Here in Amsterdam I feel it's the opposite. Next to the car roads we had beautiful biking infrastructure used by bikes going typically 10 to 15 km/h, averaging say 12km/h, used by virtually everyone, poor and rich, kids, students, parents, grandparents, there being more bikes than people in this city. Now the bicycle lanes are taken over by e-bikes going 25km/h and sometimes (illegally, as these must be on the car road) 'speedbikes' going 45 km/h. It used to be that if you go say 12km/h, virtually every other bike will also go that speed +/- 3 k/m. With a speed difference of only 3km/h, that meant two things: 1) overtaking each other happens, but only every now and then. And (2) you only need to watch a few metres behind you before overtaking, because no bike in the bike-lane could overtake you from further away at such small speed differences. Now with e-bikes going 25, you're sharing a lane with people who're on average going twice as fast as you. That means you're being overtaken constantly. It also means overtaking yourself requires much more thought and you need to look much further behind you. Overtaking is statistically the area where most accidents happen, increasing the frequency so much is causing a lot of issues. Second, the 2x as high speeds increase the brake distance by a lot, requires much faster reaction times, and increases the force and damage upon accidents. It's making me less prone to cycle, and for my parents its becoming outright dangerous to share the bike lane with bikes going 2-3x his speed. My dad broke his hip last year biking already. I'm super enthusiastic about electric bikes, it makes a lot of sense on many levels. But I'm also a bit scared of what the future holds. In Amsterdam the shift from bikes to e-bikes I feel is turning a great situation for everyone, into an even better situation for some (young e-bike users without issues) and a horrible situation for others (young children, elderly, those who get caught up in accidents) There's a reason that in recent years in Amsterdam gas-powered and electric scooters were taken off the bike lane and a mandatory helmet was introduced. Yet when recreating such a scooter similarly with some pedals, it circumvents the regulation.
  - cameronh90 5y ago
    Why do adults cycle so slowly there though? 12km/h is a moderate running pace. I actually find with my ebike, I cruise more slowly than with a regular bike. An ebike is heavier with bigger tyres but the assist cuts out at 25km/h and I can't push it much faster. Whereas with my regular bike, I typically cruise at 30-35kmh. And I'm fat with the cheapest bike I could find. Plenty of people overtake me (in London). E-bikes make accelerating and hills much easier though.
- Fradow 5y ago
  Popularity is a huge factor, but so is infrastructure. You need both to make it happen, in my opinion. I saw it happen in Paris over the last 10 years. Infrastructure used to be bad or inexistent (though not quite bad enough to have 0 cyclists). Then, with a push from the mayor, incentives it started to get better. The real turning points were the 2019 public transportation strike, then the pandemic. I'm pretty sure the infrastructure came first (though it's still an ongoing project), but the popularity is not to be dismissed. There is something magical about an intersection I used to consider dangerous (because I was cut-off about half the time by a driver not looking) transform into not dangerous without any infrastructure change, because of popularity (drivers now look and stop for cyclists at this intersection).
ozzydave 5y ago
Something I’ve noticed with an ebike is I’m much less sensitive to finding the shortest/flattest route - a bit longer path with fewer cars is an easy trade-off to make.
- milkytron 5y ago
  Likewise, although some of trips are actually shorter than a car trip because of bike paths that cut through some areas that cars cannot access. Super convenient when I need to go that direction. I'd happily ride in a neighborhood that runs parallel to a major arterial if the choice is available.
bobthepanda 5y ago
My issue is a lack of secure bike parking. Bike parking on streets is open season and “secured” parking is also frequently prowled. And that’s assuming there is even a rack to chain to; chaining to random street furniture is awkward at best and ends up blocking sidewalks at worst.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Yeah, also a good point. Overall, it just requires a lot more conscious effort than it would take to just drive, which seems like exactly the opposite of the incentives we actually want

lmm 5y ago

> E-bikes could help me cover a bigger range but I don't think they're going to solve that problem. Popularity is the solution to that though, and e-bikes help with that. As more people shift from cars to bikes we can and should narrow roads and lower speed limits, which will in turn help more people shift from cars to bikes, and so on.

emodendroket 5y ago
They could just end up in a similar place to bikes now, enjoyed primarily for recreation rather than as a practical means of transportation.
- lmm 5y ago
  (FWIW that's not at all true where I live: bikes here are practical transport first, recreation is the exception rather than the rule). The article addresses that: ebikes don't have much advantage over a regular bike for recreation, they're popular because of their practicality advantages.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I wouldn’t say that. They’re good if you want to bike with someone more experienced, or over terrain tougher than you’re used to.
- dncornholio 5y ago
  Only true if you live in a country with bad infra
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    No kidding. We’re talking about whether e-bikes becoming more popular would create the impetus to reconfigure infrastructure for e-bikes. If you already have great bike infrastructure it’s irrelevant.
IkmoIkmo 5y ago
Here in Amsterdam I feel it's the opposite. Next to the car roads we had beautiful biking infrastructure used by bikes going typically 10 to 15 km/h, averaging say 12km/h, used by virtually everyone, poor and rich, kids, students, parents, grandparents, there being more bikes than people in this city. Now the bicycle lanes are taken over by e-bikes going 25km/h and sometimes (illegally, as these must be on the car road) 'speedbikes' going 45 km/h. It used to be that if you go say 12km/h, virtually every other bike will also go that speed +/- 3 k/m. With a speed difference of only 3km/h, that meant two things: 1) overtaking each other happens, but only every now and then. And (2) you only need to watch a few metres behind you before overtaking, because no bike in the bike-lane could overtake you from further away at such small speed differences. Now with e-bikes going 25, you're sharing a lane with people who're on average going twice as fast as you. That means you're being overtaken constantly. It also means overtaking yourself requires much more thought and you need to look much further behind you. Overtaking is statistically the area where most accidents happen, increasing the frequency so much is causing a lot of issues. Second, the 2x as high speeds increase the brake distance by a lot, requires much faster reaction times, and increases the force and damage upon accidents. It's making me less prone to cycle, and for my parents its becoming outright dangerous to share the bike lane with bikes going 2-3x his speed. My dad broke his hip last year biking already. I'm super enthusiastic about electric bikes, it makes a lot of sense on many levels. But I'm also a bit scared of what the future holds. In Amsterdam the shift from bikes to e-bikes I feel is turning a great situation for everyone, into an even better situation for some (young e-bike users without issues) and a horrible situation for others (young children, elderly, those who get caught up in accidents) There's a reason that in recent years in Amsterdam gas-powered and electric scooters were taken off the bike lane and a mandatory helmet was introduced. Yet when recreating such a scooter similarly with some pedals, it circumvents the regulation.
- cameronh90 5y ago
  Why do adults cycle so slowly there though? 12km/h is a moderate running pace. I actually find with my ebike, I cruise more slowly than with a regular bike. An ebike is heavier with bigger tyres but the assist cuts out at 25km/h and I can't push it much faster. Whereas with my regular bike, I typically cruise at 30-35kmh. And I'm fat with the cheapest bike I could find. Plenty of people overtake me (in London). E-bikes make accelerating and hills much easier though.
Fradow 5y ago
Popularity is a huge factor, but so is infrastructure. You need both to make it happen, in my opinion. I saw it happen in Paris over the last 10 years. Infrastructure used to be bad or inexistent (though not quite bad enough to have 0 cyclists). Then, with a push from the mayor, incentives it started to get better. The real turning points were the 2019 public transportation strike, then the pandemic. I'm pretty sure the infrastructure came first (though it's still an ongoing project), but the popularity is not to be dismissed. There is something magical about an intersection I used to consider dangerous (because I was cut-off about half the time by a driver not looking) transform into not dangerous without any infrastructure change, because of popularity (drivers now look and stop for cyclists at this intersection).

ozzydave 5y ago

Something I’ve noticed with an ebike is I’m much less sensitive to finding the shortest/flattest route - a bit longer path with fewer cars is an easy trade-off to make.

milkytron 5y ago
Likewise, although some of trips are actually shorter than a car trip because of bike paths that cut through some areas that cars cannot access. Super convenient when I need to go that direction. I'd happily ride in a neighborhood that runs parallel to a major arterial if the choice is available.

bobthepanda 5y ago

My issue is a lack of secure bike parking. Bike parking on streets is open season and “secured” parking is also frequently prowled. And that’s assuming there is even a rack to chain to; chaining to random street furniture is awkward at best and ends up blocking sidewalks at worst.

emodendroket 5y ago
Yeah, also a good point. Overall, it just requires a lot more conscious effort than it would take to just drive, which seems like exactly the opposite of the incentives we actually want