5 ms·

> is it a specifically Christian thing or is it secular? As far as the US holiday is concerned, it's secular, by which I mean it is celebrated by pretty much e

by pdonis 5y ago

> is it a specifically Christian thing or is it secular? As far as the US holiday is concerned, it's secular, by which I mean it is celebrated by pretty much everybody regardless of religious persuasion (or lack thereof).

eru 5y ago
Thanksgiving is a bit like Christmas Eve. It's the evening before Black Friday.
- grp000 5y ago
  Now, let us pray to the one True God of the United States, Consumerism.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
skissane 5y ago
It is Christian in origin, albeit a minor local Christian tradition (developed in the US) rather than a major near-universal one. Like many Christian traditions, it has been secularised, just as Christmas has been. I think the big difference between Thanksgiving and Christmas, is the Christian origins of the later are much harder to forget. That’s why relatively few Jews (for example) are willing to celebrate Christmas even in a wholly secularised form, whereas the majority of American Jews have no problem with celebrating Thanksgiving-Christmas is still identified with its Christian origins in a way in which Thanksgiving is not. That said, not all American Jews do view Thanksgiving as acceptable. Among ultra-Orthodox Jews, the belief is widespread that celebrating Thanksgiving violates Jewish religious law against observing non-Jewish festivals. Likewise, some conservative Muslims (Salafis in particular) view Thanksgiving as haram for parallel reasons. You might say these Jewish and Muslim objectors are paying more attention to the festival’s Christian origins than most Americans do. Thanksgiving isn’t the only example of a minor American Christian tradition being secularised - the same is true of Mother’s Day and Father’s Day. Unlike Thanksgiving, which is rarely observed outside of North America, Mother’s Day and Father’s Day have spread to most of the rest of the English-speaking world, even if not always on the same date. Many cultures have indigenous traditions of festivals to celebrate motherhood and/or fatherhood, going back centuries or more; but in Anglophone countries, Mother’s Day and Father’s Day are generally American in origin, and only date to the 20th century, not due to one of those older traditions.
- senectus1 5y ago
  interesting. So its an American Settler Christian event thats been, as usual typically watered down for the mass marketability. We dont have it here in Australia (except apparently on a small island off to the side of the mainland). We don't really have any sort of festival or celebration that is comparable.
  - skissane 5y ago
    I think the equivalent for the majority of Australians really is Christmas. Americans tend to see extended family on Thanksgiving, whereas Christmas (for those who observe it) tends to be a smaller affair more likely to be spent with immediate family only. By contrast, Australians are much more likely to see extended family at Christmas. Also, our traditional equivalent to the Black Friday sales is the Boxing Day sales, which is another way in which Australian Christmas = American Thanksgiving. Very many secular Australians celebrate Christmas in a completely secular way, with no religious component. Of course it is not entirely equivalent, in that Thanksgiving is a more religiously inclusive holiday than Christmas is. While there are people with a religious objection to both, there are many more with a religious objection to the later but not the former.
    - senectus1 5y ago
      thats twice I've seen black friday mentioned along side of thanksgiving... I'll have to look up exactly what started black friday now :P
      - skissane 5y ago
        Day after Thanksgiving when stores reopen having been closed the day before. Traditionally called “Black Friday” because it put retail businesses books back into the black. I think this recent adoption of Black Friday in Australia is dumb, for two reasons: (1) It makes zero sense given we don’t celebrate Thanksgiving (2) Given the term’s historical association in Australian culture with mass death (1939 Black Friday bushfires that killed over 70 people, 2009 Black Saturday bushfires that killed over 170 people), using it for sales could be seen as disrespectful and culturally insensitive

by pdonis 5y ago

eru 5y ago

Thanksgiving is a bit like Christmas Eve. It's the evening before Black Friday.

grp000 5y ago
Now, let us pray to the one True God of the United States, Consumerism.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

skissane 5y ago

It is Christian in origin, albeit a minor local Christian tradition (developed in the US) rather than a major near-universal one. Like many Christian traditions, it has been secularised, just as Christmas has been. I think the big difference between Thanksgiving and Christmas, is the Christian origins of the later are much harder to forget. That’s why relatively few Jews (for example) are willing to celebrate Christmas even in a wholly secularised form, whereas the majority of American Jews have no problem with celebrating Thanksgiving-Christmas is still identified with its Christian origins in a way in which Thanksgiving is not. That said, not all American Jews do view Thanksgiving as acceptable. Among ultra-Orthodox Jews, the belief is widespread that celebrating Thanksgiving violates Jewish religious law against observing non-Jewish festivals. Likewise, some conservative Muslims (Salafis in particular) view Thanksgiving as haram for parallel reasons. You might say these Jewish and Muslim objectors are paying more attention to the festival’s Christian origins than most Americans do. Thanksgiving isn’t the only example of a minor American Christian tradition being secularised - the same is true of Mother’s Day and Father’s Day. Unlike Thanksgiving, which is rarely observed outside of North America, Mother’s Day and Father’s Day have spread to most of the rest of the English-speaking world, even if not always on the same date. Many cultures have indigenous traditions of festivals to celebrate motherhood and/or fatherhood, going back centuries or more; but in Anglophone countries, Mother’s Day and Father’s Day are generally American in origin, and only date to the 20th century, not due to one of those older traditions.

senectus1 5y ago
interesting. So its an American Settler Christian event thats been, as usual typically watered down for the mass marketability. We dont have it here in Australia (except apparently on a small island off to the side of the mainland). We don't really have any sort of festival or celebration that is comparable.
- skissane 5y ago
  I think the equivalent for the majority of Australians really is Christmas. Americans tend to see extended family on Thanksgiving, whereas Christmas (for those who observe it) tends to be a smaller affair more likely to be spent with immediate family only. By contrast, Australians are much more likely to see extended family at Christmas. Also, our traditional equivalent to the Black Friday sales is the Boxing Day sales, which is another way in which Australian Christmas = American Thanksgiving. Very many secular Australians celebrate Christmas in a completely secular way, with no religious component. Of course it is not entirely equivalent, in that Thanksgiving is a more religiously inclusive holiday than Christmas is. While there are people with a religious objection to both, there are many more with a religious objection to the later but not the former.
  - senectus1 5y ago
    thats twice I've seen black friday mentioned along side of thanksgiving... I'll have to look up exactly what started black friday now :P
    - skissane 5y ago
      Day after Thanksgiving when stores reopen having been closed the day before. Traditionally called “Black Friday” because it put retail businesses books back into the black. I think this recent adoption of Black Friday in Australia is dumb, for two reasons: (1) It makes zero sense given we don’t celebrate Thanksgiving (2) Given the term’s historical association in Australian culture with mass death (1939 Black Friday bushfires that killed over 70 people, 2009 Black Saturday bushfires that killed over 170 people), using it for sales could be seen as disrespectful and culturally insensitive