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I was born and raised in Georgia. I am a former military wife. I have lived in Kansas, Texas, Germany, California and Washington state. I currently live withou

I was born and raised in Georgia. I am a former military wife. I have lived in Kansas, Texas, Germany, California and Washington state. I currently live without a car in an area that gets 76 inches of rain annually. I typically describe it as biblical flood levels of rain. It's a lot of rain. I routinely go outside in a t-shirt and sweatpants in all kinds of weather, including freezing temps and snow. Weather is intimidating to people who spend almost all their time indoors and in a vehicle. If you actually spend time outside, you know how to stay warm enough, how to mitigate exposure to wind, rain, etc. And I'm seriously handicapped by a condition that is known to negatively impact my ability to effectively modulate my body temperature. So I'm not especially impressed by such arguments. I don't think they have much, if any, merit. Though I would like to see more awnings in the downtown area where I live. I would appreciate that as a means to limit my exposure to rain and I think it's very doable.

stavros 5y ago
I live in Greece and our weather ranges from 40 C to -20 C. We walk to get groceries in all kinds of weather. Sure, you won't go in the middle of the day during a heat wave, but after the sun is set is not bad. As you said, you just learn to handle the weather. Walking to the super market is a very everyday thing for us.
- ido 5y ago
  Unrelated but where in Greece does it routinely get to -20c? I'm wondering because was born and raised in Israel (similar climate to Greece) and even at the mountain tops -20c would be very rare (and there are generally no settlements of significant size at the peak of the tallest mountains, most people live in the valleys or coasts). Even in Germany where we live now (1000s of kilometers further north) -20c is very rare.
  - stavros 5y ago
    It routinely goes to -20 C every winter in my hometown, near Florina. Granted, that's in the night, but we do walk around in that kind of weather. Luckily, it's not very humid, or it would have been extremely hard to go out. AFAIK Israel is quite a bit warmer than Greece, since you guys are much closer to Cyprus (and Cyprus has a noticeably warmer climate than us), no?
    - ido 5y ago
      I think on the greek coasts the climate would be quite similar to both Cyprus and (coastal) Israel. And either way closer to that than where I now live (northern Germany)!
      - stavros 5y ago
        In general, Cyprus has much warmer summers than even Crete, for example, and much warmer seas. This is all anecdotal, but everyone I've heard (and from when I've traveled there), they're always having more and longer heat waves than us, and everyone comments about how warm the sea there is.
        ido 5y ago
        I looked it up and it seems you're right! The summer highs in Nicosia[0] really are significantly warmer than in Heraklion[1]. I assumed it will be the same as Crete and Cyprus are at the same latitude and both are islands but there must be some other effects in play. In Germany in comparison you can go almost 1000km from south to north and the only difference in climate would be if you're on a mountain or the coast (two German cities at the same altitude will have more or less the same climate even if they are 100s of kilometers apart on the south-north axis). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicosia#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicosia#Climate [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion#Climate
        stavros 5y ago
        Yeah, I suspect there's something about the location that affects them, though I don't know what. Maybe just the position in the sea? Who knows... Also, you have been downvoted, no idea why though. I counter-upvoted.
necovek 5y ago
The best way to gain support is to extrapolate from your own situation. /s Don't get me wrong: I believe your case, and I believe it's roughly on the path to reducing the effect we have on the planet. But you are missing few practical considerations. The immediate case that you are obviously ignoring is parents with babies. Babies are known not to regulate their body temperature well, nor to have strong immune systems, nor can they walk long distances on their own. So what do parents do? Move between places with temperate climate and clean(er) air (home with AC/heating, cars, malls...). How do they do that? Driving cars (you've also got your mobile "locker" where you can put a stroller or any other necessities in). At the same time, parents with small children (as a category) probably spend the most time outdoors walking in our society today, but that's usually walking "without a purpose." When they live in non-walkable areas, they'll drive to a walkable area first. (Sure, we could subject our babies to all the extremes, but we'll have a higher infant/child mortality rate. We've long stopped subscribing to the "only the fittest survive" mantra.) Since having a baby is a big investment today, if you are at the same time investing in a house, you'll look for (slightly) cheaper housing options. So, walkable neighbourhoods — I can't imagine anyone not wanting to live in one — are usually priced out of their range. You are right that this is a loop: parents can't tell when they can stop being so vigilant, especially as children (and parents) are now unused to extreme climates, so they easily fall sick (parents included). And if they've invested in a home outside a walkable area, it's costly to move. While you say breaking that loop is easy, I don't think it is. Moving places is hard and expensive (and harder and more expensive with children). Accepting higher sickness rates while your kids and you develop your immune and cardiovascular (to better manage body heat) systems is costly too (leave from work, paid help...). You should consider yourself privileged to have been able to do so! This points at a number of problems: financial incentives for home builders are misplaced, missing regulatory requirements... and sure, insufficiently motivated people. And this is only when constrained with one thing (having a baby): there are plenty other constraints people might have (job availability, care availability, friends proximity...). Basically, people might have to compromise a lot. If you only focus on insufficient motivation, I don't think you'll get many to "sign up".
- frobozz 5y ago
  The immediate point that you are obviously ignoring is that no one you are replying to has even suggested anything that you seem to be arguing against. It looks like you are responding to someone saying "ban all cars, anyone living somewhere unwalkable just has to suck it up, regardless of any extenuating circumstances" What was actually said was "LET people run errands by foot and by car", and "I'd like more awnings" Basically - make places more walkable. "Low hanging fruit" meaning focus on making nearly walkable places into very walkable places. I am a parent with small children. We walk to school. With a baby, I would walk to the supermarket, no one got ill any more than the occasional sniffle. Combining a pram and a backpack meant I could easily bring home the weekly shop, much easier than I can now that I have to carry everything. It's also about places that are wantonly and deliberately hostile to pedestrians. Don't make people drive between adjacent destinations, don't force people to walk 2 miles to get somewhere half a mile away. If you live in a village with a baby and an elderly parent and your nearest city is Timbuktu or Nuuk, this is not about you.

stavros 5y ago

I live in Greece and our weather ranges from 40 C to -20 C. We walk to get groceries in all kinds of weather. Sure, you won't go in the middle of the day during a heat wave, but after the sun is set is not bad. As you said, you just learn to handle the weather. Walking to the super market is a very everyday thing for us.

ido 5y ago
Unrelated but where in Greece does it routinely get to -20c? I'm wondering because was born and raised in Israel (similar climate to Greece) and even at the mountain tops -20c would be very rare (and there are generally no settlements of significant size at the peak of the tallest mountains, most people live in the valleys or coasts). Even in Germany where we live now (1000s of kilometers further north) -20c is very rare.
- stavros 5y ago
  It routinely goes to -20 C every winter in my hometown, near Florina. Granted, that's in the night, but we do walk around in that kind of weather. Luckily, it's not very humid, or it would have been extremely hard to go out. AFAIK Israel is quite a bit warmer than Greece, since you guys are much closer to Cyprus (and Cyprus has a noticeably warmer climate than us), no?
  - ido 5y ago
    I think on the greek coasts the climate would be quite similar to both Cyprus and (coastal) Israel. And either way closer to that than where I now live (northern Germany)!
    - stavros 5y ago
      In general, Cyprus has much warmer summers than even Crete, for example, and much warmer seas. This is all anecdotal, but everyone I've heard (and from when I've traveled there), they're always having more and longer heat waves than us, and everyone comments about how warm the sea there is.
      - ido 5y ago
        I looked it up and it seems you're right! The summer highs in Nicosia[0] really are significantly warmer than in Heraklion[1]. I assumed it will be the same as Crete and Cyprus are at the same latitude and both are islands but there must be some other effects in play. In Germany in comparison you can go almost 1000km from south to north and the only difference in climate would be if you're on a mountain or the coast (two German cities at the same altitude will have more or less the same climate even if they are 100s of kilometers apart on the south-north axis). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicosia#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicosia#Climate [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion#Climate
        stavros 5y ago
        Yeah, I suspect there's something about the location that affects them, though I don't know what. Maybe just the position in the sea? Who knows... Also, you have been downvoted, no idea why though. I counter-upvoted.

necovek 5y ago

The best way to gain support is to extrapolate from your own situation. /s Don't get me wrong: I believe your case, and I believe it's roughly on the path to reducing the effect we have on the planet. But you are missing few practical considerations. The immediate case that you are obviously ignoring is parents with babies. Babies are known not to regulate their body temperature well, nor to have strong immune systems, nor can they walk long distances on their own. So what do parents do? Move between places with temperate climate and clean(er) air (home with AC/heating, cars, malls...). How do they do that? Driving cars (you've also got your mobile "locker" where you can put a stroller or any other necessities in). At the same time, parents with small children (as a category) probably spend the most time outdoors walking in our society today, but that's usually walking "without a purpose." When they live in non-walkable areas, they'll drive to a walkable area first. (Sure, we could subject our babies to all the extremes, but we'll have a higher infant/child mortality rate. We've long stopped subscribing to the "only the fittest survive" mantra.) Since having a baby is a big investment today, if you are at the same time investing in a house, you'll look for (slightly) cheaper housing options. So, walkable neighbourhoods — I can't imagine anyone not wanting to live in one — are usually priced out of their range. You are right that this is a loop: parents can't tell when they can stop being so vigilant, especially as children (and parents) are now unused to extreme climates, so they easily fall sick (parents included). And if they've invested in a home outside a walkable area, it's costly to move. While you say breaking that loop is easy, I don't think it is. Moving places is hard and expensive (and harder and more expensive with children). Accepting higher sickness rates while your kids and you develop your immune and cardiovascular (to better manage body heat) systems is costly too (leave from work, paid help...). You should consider yourself privileged to have been able to do so! This points at a number of problems: financial incentives for home builders are misplaced, missing regulatory requirements... and sure, insufficiently motivated people. And this is only when constrained with one thing (having a baby): there are plenty other constraints people might have (job availability, care availability, friends proximity...). Basically, people might have to compromise a lot. If you only focus on insufficient motivation, I don't think you'll get many to "sign up".

frobozz 5y ago
The immediate point that you are obviously ignoring is that no one you are replying to has even suggested anything that you seem to be arguing against. It looks like you are responding to someone saying "ban all cars, anyone living somewhere unwalkable just has to suck it up, regardless of any extenuating circumstances" What was actually said was "LET people run errands by foot and by car", and "I'd like more awnings" Basically - make places more walkable. "Low hanging fruit" meaning focus on making nearly walkable places into very walkable places. I am a parent with small children. We walk to school. With a baby, I would walk to the supermarket, no one got ill any more than the occasional sniffle. Combining a pram and a backpack meant I could easily bring home the weekly shop, much easier than I can now that I have to carry everything. It's also about places that are wantonly and deliberately hostile to pedestrians. Don't make people drive between adjacent destinations, don't force people to walk 2 miles to get somewhere half a mile away. If you live in a village with a baby and an elderly parent and your nearest city is Timbuktu or Nuuk, this is not about you.