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I really would love if folks talking about volatile AWS prices would actually give examples. I have been screwed, personally, by enough "free" and "unlimited"

I really would love if folks talking about volatile AWS prices would actually give examples. I have been screwed, personally, by enough "free" and "unlimited" offerings to never believe them. On AWS, all the price changes I've had have been to reduce my costs. This is over a pretty long period. So inform us of the uncertainty with AWS. Google, sure, they could cancel or 3x your bill (hi Maps API customers etc). AWS does not have that history. Cloudflare has secret pricing - that's the really annoying thing. Seriously, put a porn site up online with cloudflare and see how far "free" gets you.

windexh8er 5y ago
> I really would love if folks talking about volatile AWS prices would actually give examples. There was never any mention of "volatile" pricing. Egregious? Yes. Volatile? No. There's a significant difference of meaning with those words. Here's a perfect example [0] by Corey Quinn. > So inform us of the uncertainty with AWS. I didn't mention "uncertainty with AWS". I mentioned that there is no more certainty with AWS than with any other major cloud provider with respect to your statement about public companies who "eventually succumb like every company before them to the realities of reporting growth". And then for some reason you pivoted to your own, personal, AWS bill from there. I'm not exactly following the logic. > Cloudflare has secret pricing - that's the really annoying thing. At this point I'm not sure if your comment is even serious. First of all, please elaborate on "secret pricing". Sounds like serious charges we should all be aware of. Maybe it's with the article from 2019 on The Register about domain pricing? That's not exactly in the context of this thread, but please enlighten the masses. > Seriously, put a porn site up online with cloudflare and see how far "free" gets you. I'd charge you with the same ask on AWS. You seem to imply the "free" tier, on AWS, will provide proper capabilities to host an adult content site. I have strong doubts about this. The logic of this argument is ill conceived at best. Or is your logic just that you can't do this on Cloudflare and that's the root of your argument on why AWS is better? Again, I'm not exactly following your train of thought. [0] https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/the-compelling-economics-of-cloudflare-r2/ https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/the-compelling-economics-...
- slownews45 5y ago
  Let's be crystal crystal clear here. If I host a high data use video site on AWS, I can calculate what my costs will be. That provides me some certainty with respect to a business plan. Even better, AWS does have a history that is much better than others in terms of pricing stability. This doesn't mean best price. Can you say the same about cloudflare? No. Can you say the same about oracle? No - they have a miserable history of screwing customers. AWS is offering clear pricing, cloudflare is not. It's really that simple. This makes me realize that folks just don't understand the value AWS is providing, and is perhaps why they can charge such insane prices. People with actual money to spend don't want "free" because they don't believe it's actually free. In terms of cloudflare, they have something like a negative 60% operating margin. The idea of building a business on a company with a negative 60%+ operating margin is insane, either they will go bust or have to raise prices. AWS by contrast makes money. Because of this, they can shave a point or two off margin to give (another) price reduction. 1TB per month cloudfront, 2M cloudfront functions etc etc. They are under almost NO financial pressure to raise rates. Cloudflare is under pressure or will be. With VC money perhaps they will get a longer runway. The "free" offerings are an old story by now.
  - windexh8er 5y ago
    It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how, just because Amazon's price model has been reliable, that it must be a viable cost because people pay it. It's unfortunate that the reality you're basing this comment on is so far off base that you've convinced yourself AWS egress fees are somehow "stable". It's also very interesting that you're stating Cloudflare is under some unforeseen "pressure" because they're not turning a profit today. I would gather you're assuming Cloudflare is being soaked by infrastructure costs, which is completely incorrect, as they build out their pivot towards targeting the enterprise market by investing in their field (sales) and continually reinvesting in R&D. It's also fantastic to read the misconceptions of the "value" AWS is providing. In some cases they do provide a much greater value over cost ratio, but if you've convinced yourself that blindly for AWS proper as a whole - boy do I feel for you the day you realize the economic advantage they manipulate to monopolize the cloud market, and not for the greater good of their customers. Clear pricing you say? I'll use Corey Quinn (The Duckbill Group [0]) as an example again - his entire liveihood and business runs on the fact that AWS pricing is not even remotely clear. It's laughable that anyone would publicly make that statement at this point in time knowing what we know. Sure, if you're running a static site on S3 for a few users a month I'm sure you've got it covered. For those of us dealing with large scale enterprise everything stated here is, at best, bending the truth and at worst flat out ignorance. [0] https://www.duckbillgroup.com/ https://www.duckbillgroup.com/

windexh8er 5y ago

> I really would love if folks talking about volatile AWS prices would actually give examples. There was never any mention of "volatile" pricing. Egregious? Yes. Volatile? No. There's a significant difference of meaning with those words. Here's a perfect example [0] by Corey Quinn. > So inform us of the uncertainty with AWS. I didn't mention "uncertainty with AWS". I mentioned that there is no more certainty with AWS than with any other major cloud provider with respect to your statement about public companies who "eventually succumb like every company before them to the realities of reporting growth". And then for some reason you pivoted to your own, personal, AWS bill from there. I'm not exactly following the logic. > Cloudflare has secret pricing - that's the really annoying thing. At this point I'm not sure if your comment is even serious. First of all, please elaborate on "secret pricing". Sounds like serious charges we should all be aware of. Maybe it's with the article from 2019 on The Register about domain pricing? That's not exactly in the context of this thread, but please enlighten the masses. > Seriously, put a porn site up online with cloudflare and see how far "free" gets you. I'd charge you with the same ask on AWS. You seem to imply the "free" tier, on AWS, will provide proper capabilities to host an adult content site. I have strong doubts about this. The logic of this argument is ill conceived at best. Or is your logic just that you can't do this on Cloudflare and that's the root of your argument on why AWS is better? Again, I'm not exactly following your train of thought. [0] https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/the-compelling-economics-of-cloudflare-r2/ https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/the-compelling-economics-...

slownews45 5y ago
Let's be crystal crystal clear here. If I host a high data use video site on AWS, I can calculate what my costs will be. That provides me some certainty with respect to a business plan. Even better, AWS does have a history that is much better than others in terms of pricing stability. This doesn't mean best price. Can you say the same about cloudflare? No. Can you say the same about oracle? No - they have a miserable history of screwing customers. AWS is offering clear pricing, cloudflare is not. It's really that simple. This makes me realize that folks just don't understand the value AWS is providing, and is perhaps why they can charge such insane prices. People with actual money to spend don't want "free" because they don't believe it's actually free. In terms of cloudflare, they have something like a negative 60% operating margin. The idea of building a business on a company with a negative 60%+ operating margin is insane, either they will go bust or have to raise prices. AWS by contrast makes money. Because of this, they can shave a point or two off margin to give (another) price reduction. 1TB per month cloudfront, 2M cloudfront functions etc etc. They are under almost NO financial pressure to raise rates. Cloudflare is under pressure or will be. With VC money perhaps they will get a longer runway. The "free" offerings are an old story by now.
- windexh8er 5y ago
  It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how, just because Amazon's price model has been reliable, that it must be a viable cost because people pay it. It's unfortunate that the reality you're basing this comment on is so far off base that you've convinced yourself AWS egress fees are somehow "stable". It's also very interesting that you're stating Cloudflare is under some unforeseen "pressure" because they're not turning a profit today. I would gather you're assuming Cloudflare is being soaked by infrastructure costs, which is completely incorrect, as they build out their pivot towards targeting the enterprise market by investing in their field (sales) and continually reinvesting in R&D. It's also fantastic to read the misconceptions of the "value" AWS is providing. In some cases they do provide a much greater value over cost ratio, but if you've convinced yourself that blindly for AWS proper as a whole - boy do I feel for you the day you realize the economic advantage they manipulate to monopolize the cloud market, and not for the greater good of their customers. Clear pricing you say? I'll use Corey Quinn (The Duckbill Group [0]) as an example again - his entire liveihood and business runs on the fact that AWS pricing is not even remotely clear. It's laughable that anyone would publicly make that statement at this point in time knowing what we know. Sure, if you're running a static site on S3 for a few users a month I'm sure you've got it covered. For those of us dealing with large scale enterprise everything stated here is, at best, bending the truth and at worst flat out ignorance. [0] https://www.duckbillgroup.com/ https://www.duckbillgroup.com/