7 ms·

"Rates" is the operative word, and I of course mean "in the vaccinated population", because antivax people will die from COVID; this is well-known. Seems to me

by nawgz 5y ago

"Rates" is the operative word, and I of course mean "in the vaccinated population", because antivax people will die from COVID; this is well-known. Seems to me that most EU countries are in a fourth wave of COVID with total cases surpassing anything in the past, yet the graph you link shows deaths below all the past waves, and it doesn't discuss vaccination status. Please read a bit more charitably, it makes no sense to post this graph as if it shows something relevant.

T-A 5y ago
> the graph you link shows deaths below all the past waves and rising, which is what you said you didn't see > and it doesn't discuss vaccination status What is there to discuss? There are more vaccinated people in the EU now than at any earlier time, and yet the death rate has already climbed halfway back from to the November 2020 peak (which occurred when nobody had been vaccinated yet) and shows no sign of slowing down. > Please read a bit more charitably, it makes no sense to post this graph as if it shows something relevant However charitably I try to read this statement, I can make no sense of it.
- nawgz 5y ago
  > > the graph you link shows deaths below all the past waves > and rising, which is what you said you didn't see "Death rates". How explicit do I have to be? "Death rate" is the total amount of deaths (which you linked) DIVIDED BY the total amount of COVID cases. Linking "total deaths" and implying it is "death rate" is absurd. > There are more vaccinated people in the EU now than at any earlier time, and yet the death rate has already climbed halfway back from to the November 2020 peak And this is even more absurd. You must be able to ARGUE IN NUMBERS if you will argue that numbers are increasing; using half-baked logic and ignoring the unvaccinated population who is probably fueling most of that death spike is like me making a performance benchmark for performance-per-core and then measuring how many instructions were executed without providing a time measurement and saying "the higher instruction count is better", which is to say if someone was to do it they would be laughed out of the room. Perhaps this is your cue to exit.
  - T-A 5y ago
    > > > the graph you link shows deaths below all the past waves > > and rising, which is what you said you didn't see > "Death rates". How explicit do I have to be? "Death rate" is the total amount of deaths (which you linked) DIVIDED BY the total amount of COVID cases. By your personal definition, which you did not bother to specify until now. A (I think generally accepted) definition is deaths DIVIDED (to mirror your all-caps frenzy) by population, which is what I linked (no, it's not "total amount of deaths"; did you even look at the chart?). What you are referring to as "death rate" is actually called "case fatality rate".
    - nawgz 5y ago
      You would be some special kind of fool to think that what I call “death rate” isn’t the most obvious and only relevant statistic when it comes to describing vaccine effectiveness
      - T-A 5y ago
        You would be some special kind of fool to think that if you say A when you actually mean B, people will respond to B rather than to A.
        nawgz 5y ago
        You're literally being a dunce and arguing like someone else is. Here, a first result for "Death Rate": > Mortality rate, or death rate, is a measure of the number of deaths in a particular population If it wasn't clear the only relevant population for vaccine effectiveness is the population that had COVID, I think you should just go ahead and move to the Facebook comment forums; this one requires a bit more intellect than you possess
        T-A 5y ago
        > You're literally being a dunce Oh, what a surprise, more insults from somebody who can't even use the correct terminology and claims that "death rate" is "the most obvious and only relevant statistic when it comes to describing vaccine effectiveness". If you had ANY interest in facts, it would take you only a moment of thought to realize that neither the (correctly defined) death rate nor case fatality rate can be "the most obvious and only relevant statistic when it comes to describing vaccine effectiveness", since they make no distinction between people who were vaccinated back at the beginning of the year and people who just got their shots. You would then also realize that "the most obvious and only relevant statistic" is case fatality rate as a function of time since vaccination. You would plot that with time since inoculation on the x axis and case fatality rate on the y axis. A few seconds of googling would then lead you to a couple of big recent studies: https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/our-story/health-research/news/pfizer-biontech-covid-vaccine-effectiveness-wanes-over-time https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/our-story/health-research... https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/11/covid-19-vaccines-85-effective-against-hospital-cases-weaken-over-time https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/11/covid-19... https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... In short, protection against infection wanes rapidly, protection against hospitalization and death wanes more slowly, and booster shots help, as exemplified by the Israeli example. From the Science article: This phenomenon has been most comprehensively monitored in Israel, where high levels of transmission of the Delta variant led to a resurgent outbreak in mid-June 2021 (16), despite a successful nationwide campaign to vaccinate the population (17). Israel authorized boosters of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for adults age ≥ 60 years in July 2021 and extended this authorization to adults age ≥ 50 years in August 2021 (18). Rates of infection and severe illness subsequently declined in those who received a booster (19).
vibrato2 5y ago
“ antivax people will die from COVID; this is well-known” Lol when? You’re literally the meme “die already! // No.”
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by nawgz 5y ago

T-A 5y ago

> the graph you link shows deaths below all the past waves and rising, which is what you said you didn't see > and it doesn't discuss vaccination status What is there to discuss? There are more vaccinated people in the EU now than at any earlier time, and yet the death rate has already climbed halfway back from to the November 2020 peak (which occurred when nobody had been vaccinated yet) and shows no sign of slowing down. > Please read a bit more charitably, it makes no sense to post this graph as if it shows something relevant However charitably I try to read this statement, I can make no sense of it.

nawgz 5y ago
> > the graph you link shows deaths below all the past waves > and rising, which is what you said you didn't see "Death rates". How explicit do I have to be? "Death rate" is the total amount of deaths (which you linked) DIVIDED BY the total amount of COVID cases. Linking "total deaths" and implying it is "death rate" is absurd. > There are more vaccinated people in the EU now than at any earlier time, and yet the death rate has already climbed halfway back from to the November 2020 peak And this is even more absurd. You must be able to ARGUE IN NUMBERS if you will argue that numbers are increasing; using half-baked logic and ignoring the unvaccinated population who is probably fueling most of that death spike is like me making a performance benchmark for performance-per-core and then measuring how many instructions were executed without providing a time measurement and saying "the higher instruction count is better", which is to say if someone was to do it they would be laughed out of the room. Perhaps this is your cue to exit.
- T-A 5y ago
  > > > the graph you link shows deaths below all the past waves > > and rising, which is what you said you didn't see > "Death rates". How explicit do I have to be? "Death rate" is the total amount of deaths (which you linked) DIVIDED BY the total amount of COVID cases. By your personal definition, which you did not bother to specify until now. A (I think generally accepted) definition is deaths DIVIDED (to mirror your all-caps frenzy) by population, which is what I linked (no, it's not "total amount of deaths"; did you even look at the chart?). What you are referring to as "death rate" is actually called "case fatality rate".
  - nawgz 5y ago
    You would be some special kind of fool to think that what I call “death rate” isn’t the most obvious and only relevant statistic when it comes to describing vaccine effectiveness
    - T-A 5y ago
      You would be some special kind of fool to think that if you say A when you actually mean B, people will respond to B rather than to A.
      - nawgz 5y ago
        You're literally being a dunce and arguing like someone else is. Here, a first result for "Death Rate": > Mortality rate, or death rate, is a measure of the number of deaths in a particular population If it wasn't clear the only relevant population for vaccine effectiveness is the population that had COVID, I think you should just go ahead and move to the Facebook comment forums; this one requires a bit more intellect than you possess
        T-A 5y ago
        > You're literally being a dunce Oh, what a surprise, more insults from somebody who can't even use the correct terminology and claims that "death rate" is "the most obvious and only relevant statistic when it comes to describing vaccine effectiveness". If you had ANY interest in facts, it would take you only a moment of thought to realize that neither the (correctly defined) death rate nor case fatality rate can be "the most obvious and only relevant statistic when it comes to describing vaccine effectiveness", since they make no distinction between people who were vaccinated back at the beginning of the year and people who just got their shots. You would then also realize that "the most obvious and only relevant statistic" is case fatality rate as a function of time since vaccination. You would plot that with time since inoculation on the x axis and case fatality rate on the y axis. A few seconds of googling would then lead you to a couple of big recent studies: https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/our-story/health-research/news/pfizer-biontech-covid-vaccine-effectiveness-wanes-over-time https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/our-story/health-research... https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/11/covid-19-vaccines-85-effective-against-hospital-cases-weaken-over-time https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/11/covid-19... https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... In short, protection against infection wanes rapidly, protection against hospitalization and death wanes more slowly, and booster shots help, as exemplified by the Israeli example. From the Science article: This phenomenon has been most comprehensively monitored in Israel, where high levels of transmission of the Delta variant led to a resurgent outbreak in mid-June 2021 (16), despite a successful nationwide campaign to vaccinate the population (17). Israel authorized boosters of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for adults age ≥ 60 years in July 2021 and extended this authorization to adults age ≥ 50 years in August 2021 (18). Rates of infection and severe illness subsequently declined in those who received a booster (19).

vibrato2 5y ago

“ antivax people will die from COVID; this is well-known” Lol when? You’re literally the meme “die already! // No.”

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]