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https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/consortium-japan-firms-test-launch-digital-currency-nikkei-2021-11-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/consort

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/consortium-japan-firms-test-launch-digital-currency-nikkei-2021-11-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/consortium-japan-fi... this one doesn't mention blockchain. Which gives me hope. The cozy relationship between the state and the big corps gives me worry, but ideally: 1. Giving everyone a central bank account makes issuing a UBI really easy. That would be great for Japan to boost domestic consumption, and get those hikikomoris some non-shit non-saleryman jobs. 2. If this does eventually displace cash, they can also try out fun things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage which would really counteract deflation in all the right ways but none of the wrong ways. Ultimately, per stuff like https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300244175/trade-wars-are-class-wars https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300244175/trade-wars-are... the world really needs the big exporter countries to consume more. The world we live in of large trade imbalances is not healthy for the US or the big exporters alike. I don't think the US has the political will to overcome it's oligarchs and stop the imports, plus the poorer countries that don't even export a lot still greatly depend on our trade deficit to be able to get USD reserves. It is better the big exporters stop "importing our demand" so much, and focus more on domestic consumption (and at least China has stated they want to do this). That will put the pressure on the US from the outside to side-step our failed-state politics.

Ericson2314 5y ago
Oh I thought this thing involved the Bank of Japan, but evidently it is all private sector. Arg nevermined. Hopefully the Bank of Japan does indeed continue with it's exploratory plans, though.
howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
> makes issuing a UBI really easy Query: Who produces the goods & services that create value in a country/society when everyone is collecting UBI? Is it just the people who 'enjoy' working? And, when UBI causes baseline consumable prices to rise, we just keep raising UBI, right? Can we just call it for what it really is... communism? Why keep pretending?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ljm 5y ago
  Communism would imply a lot more than providing a base income to everyone to keep them out of abject poverty. You might be thinking of socialist democracy which maintains a balance between unfettered capitalism and full-blown communism. In the UK you get about 10k personal allowance before you have to start paying tax. That is one form of UBI although it requires you to earn an income (and you actually start to lose this allowance once you start earning over 100k). You could replace that all the same with a system that dumps 10k into your account every year and then starts taxing you for every penny earned (at a higher rate). We have had the past 100-or-so years to learn, empirically, that both unfettered capitalism and full-blown communism are not particularly good ways to maintain a healthy society.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  > Who produces the goods & services that create value in a country/society when everyone is collecting UBI? The people collecting UBI, duh. The events of the past 2 years have convinced me that even a small UBI can still have a large effect. > And, when UBI causes baseline consumable prices to rise, we just keep raising UBI, right? Don't be an idiot. "pure inflation" is multiplicative, scaling all prices the same. UBI is additive providing a base-line income stream. The interaction will be very complex. UBI can be paired with simple-stupid regressive taxes like VAT and still come out net-progressive. There will be some adjustments in prices but a new equilibrium absolutely can be reached. > Can we just call it for what it really is... communism? Why keep pretending? The idea is that "the first x dollars of consumption are socialism, the rest capitalism". It is not 100% socialism, don't be an idiot. It is only bad if you believe society depends on sticks and workers will not work for mostly carrots. Is that what you believe?
  - qq4 5y ago
    > The events of the past 2 years have convinced me that even a small UBI can still have a large effect Can you expand on this. What events have convinced you? Fwiw I'm trying not to be an idiot ;)

Ericson2314 5y ago

Oh I thought this thing involved the Bank of Japan, but evidently it is all private sector. Arg nevermined. Hopefully the Bank of Japan does indeed continue with it's exploratory plans, though.

howmayiannoyyou 5y ago

> makes issuing a UBI really easy Query: Who produces the goods & services that create value in a country/society when everyone is collecting UBI? Is it just the people who 'enjoy' working? And, when UBI causes baseline consumable prices to rise, we just keep raising UBI, right? Can we just call it for what it really is... communism? Why keep pretending?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ljm 5y ago
Communism would imply a lot more than providing a base income to everyone to keep them out of abject poverty. You might be thinking of socialist democracy which maintains a balance between unfettered capitalism and full-blown communism. In the UK you get about 10k personal allowance before you have to start paying tax. That is one form of UBI although it requires you to earn an income (and you actually start to lose this allowance once you start earning over 100k). You could replace that all the same with a system that dumps 10k into your account every year and then starts taxing you for every penny earned (at a higher rate). We have had the past 100-or-so years to learn, empirically, that both unfettered capitalism and full-blown communism are not particularly good ways to maintain a healthy society.
Ericson2314 5y ago
> Who produces the goods & services that create value in a country/society when everyone is collecting UBI? The people collecting UBI, duh. The events of the past 2 years have convinced me that even a small UBI can still have a large effect. > And, when UBI causes baseline consumable prices to rise, we just keep raising UBI, right? Don't be an idiot. "pure inflation" is multiplicative, scaling all prices the same. UBI is additive providing a base-line income stream. The interaction will be very complex. UBI can be paired with simple-stupid regressive taxes like VAT and still come out net-progressive. There will be some adjustments in prices but a new equilibrium absolutely can be reached. > Can we just call it for what it really is... communism? Why keep pretending? The idea is that "the first x dollars of consumption are socialism, the rest capitalism". It is not 100% socialism, don't be an idiot. It is only bad if you believe society depends on sticks and workers will not work for mostly carrots. Is that what you believe?
- qq4 5y ago
  > The events of the past 2 years have convinced me that even a small UBI can still have a large effect Can you expand on this. What events have convinced you? Fwiw I'm trying not to be an idiot ;)