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Lack of human support in the old Web 2.0 is bad, but going full zero-trust in response seems more like throwing a fit instead of improving things (e.g., banning

Lack of human support in the old Web 2.0 is bad, but going full zero-trust in response seems more like throwing a fit instead of improving things (e.g., banning the exploitative ‘free’ ad-supported business models). A world in which you lose some magic alphanumeric combination (or a thief pinches your hardware key, etc.) and you are literally locked out of your identity (together with access to your eternal blockchain-backed social rating or whatever is the logical next move) seems simultaneously horrifying and ridiculous.

paul_f 5y ago
It does not even require hacker, a thief could show up at your house and demand your keys.
- DanHulton 5y ago
  Ah, the ol' "rubber hose cryptanalysis". I was literally just talking about this an hour ago.
- mannanj 5y ago
  How would this be any different from a thief breaking in anyways and taking your valuables at gunpoint?
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    Because your money are in a bank (which is generally a bit more difficult to break into), and if the thief takes some of the shiny toys you are still left with your identity at least.
practice9 5y ago
It's just that by relying so much on centralized corporations we give them powers of a country/dictatorship: - issue an ID - create a policy - ban if you break the ambiguous rules or trip some fraud algorithm - not ban some people or orgs even if they break the rules, because they bring too much value to platform (= almost a bribe in some sense) - and you can't really emigrate and take your belongings with you. Can you export your social graph from FB? Not sure if that's possible, at least not in a straightforward way, you need to recreate it on another platform again. - Google and Apple become a little better with this last few years, there is data export (in a .zip, lol) I agree with your second point. For non-technical users, taking care of their private key will be a huge issue. There are some models like multisig, or social recovery (you add a guardian or a set of trusted persons that can vouch for you). AFAIK even FB has been trying out social recovery features. This is a good post about social recovery wallets: https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html
- strogonoff 5y ago
  This won’t solve the problem with maliciuos actors in positions of power, and if we take care of malicious intent (which is really the only way forward) there is no need for technology that essentially exists to avoid having people to trust each other.

paul_f 5y ago

It does not even require hacker, a thief could show up at your house and demand your keys.

DanHulton 5y ago
Ah, the ol' "rubber hose cryptanalysis". I was literally just talking about this an hour ago.
mannanj 5y ago
How would this be any different from a thief breaking in anyways and taking your valuables at gunpoint?
- strogonoff 5y ago
  Because your money are in a bank (which is generally a bit more difficult to break into), and if the thief takes some of the shiny toys you are still left with your identity at least.

practice9 5y ago

It's just that by relying so much on centralized corporations we give them powers of a country/dictatorship: - issue an ID - create a policy - ban if you break the ambiguous rules or trip some fraud algorithm - not ban some people or orgs even if they break the rules, because they bring too much value to platform (= almost a bribe in some sense) - and you can't really emigrate and take your belongings with you. Can you export your social graph from FB? Not sure if that's possible, at least not in a straightforward way, you need to recreate it on another platform again. - Google and Apple become a little better with this last few years, there is data export (in a .zip, lol) I agree with your second point. For non-technical users, taking care of their private key will be a huge issue. There are some models like multisig, or social recovery (you add a guardian or a set of trusted persons that can vouch for you). AFAIK even FB has been trying out social recovery features. This is a good post about social recovery wallets: https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html

strogonoff 5y ago
This won’t solve the problem with maliciuos actors in positions of power, and if we take care of malicious intent (which is really the only way forward) there is no need for technology that essentially exists to avoid having people to trust each other.