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It would be great to hear "this is why this thing didn't come from the lab: these are the strains under research, it doesn't match what was found. These are the

It would be great to hear "this is why this thing didn't come from the lab: these are the strains under research, it doesn't match what was found. These are the security measures we have in place, here's all the audit data. WHO, please validate." That would be helpful. Not this "yeah, we have this lab in the same area, why are you asking? It's fine. No you can't look, that's disrespectful." This is fishy. Even if this pathogen specifically, didn't come from the lab, someone somewhere messed up(or is doing something messed up right now) and don't want people poking around.

ethbr0 5y ago
Or they simply don't have data to prove conclusively it was not leaked, because it wasn't logged correctly. And being a paranoid communist autocracy, they'll naturally take the "limit information" approach over "release everything and let external parties determine a verdict".
baq 5y ago
China will not, if possible, willingly put itself in a position which admits any likelihood of losing face. If they couldn't rule out the possibility themselves and/or cover up completely that it was in fact a leak, they won't let anyone in - not because it happened, but because it might have.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  That reasoning is so, so, so weak. 'This might embarrass us so you can't look' is _not_ a valid defense; anyone who says it is can be assumed to be complicit. If it 'might' have happened, then there needs to be an investigation. We're talking about millions dead worldwide, and tens of trillions in damages. Inequality has spiked and second-order deaths may well outnumber direct COVID-19 deaths already. And years on we haven't had an investigation into the single most likely source - that's insane, dangerous, divisive and inexcusable.
  - baq 5y ago
    This is China we're talking about. Fear of losing face is a deeply rooted cultural thing. It isn't a valid defense... in the west.

ethbr0 5y ago

Or they simply don't have data to prove conclusively it was not leaked, because it wasn't logged correctly. And being a paranoid communist autocracy, they'll naturally take the "limit information" approach over "release everything and let external parties determine a verdict".

baq 5y ago

China will not, if possible, willingly put itself in a position which admits any likelihood of losing face. If they couldn't rule out the possibility themselves and/or cover up completely that it was in fact a leak, they won't let anyone in - not because it happened, but because it might have.

mandmandam 5y ago
That reasoning is so, so, so weak. 'This might embarrass us so you can't look' is _not_ a valid defense; anyone who says it is can be assumed to be complicit. If it 'might' have happened, then there needs to be an investigation. We're talking about millions dead worldwide, and tens of trillions in damages. Inequality has spiked and second-order deaths may well outnumber direct COVID-19 deaths already. And years on we haven't had an investigation into the single most likely source - that's insane, dangerous, divisive and inexcusable.
- baq 5y ago
  This is China we're talking about. Fear of losing face is a deeply rooted cultural thing. It isn't a valid defense... in the west.