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> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for < 9th grade chil

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for < 9th grade children. I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating severely. For reference, this was in an underfunded rural American public school. I was 12.

RandallBrown 5y ago
I took algebra in 7th grade as well, but it was considered advanced by 2 years. It was normal to take algebra in 9th grade. I went to an okay high school in a medium sized city in Michigan. That was about 20 years ago.
function_seven 5y ago
When I was in 5th grade, I was put into the advanced math class. We graphed equations, learned y=mx+b, slopes, etc. All the basic concepts that are introduced in Algebra 1. When I was in 7th grade, we were taught "what a negative number is." That entire year was a complete and utter waste. But fortunately, 8th grade offered Algebra where I could get back on track. This was 30 years ago, in California. Public school math standards are a joke here, and apparently getting even worse.
bko 5y ago
I don't know what to tell you. That's the state of the country. But hey, at least they're honest about why they're doing it: > San Francisco pioneered key aspects of the new approach, opting in 2014 to delay algebra instruction until 9th grade and to push advanced mathematics courses until at least after 10th grade as a means of promoting equity. The school failed the most vulnerable children by objective measures, so they're just trying to get rid of those measures entirely.
- nimish 5y ago
  Yep it seems like the "equitable" solution to failing children is to simply redefine success. Really, truly worrying that instead of focusing resources to help kids improve and overcome a challenge the answer is to remove the challenge instead.
- s5300 5y ago
  When commenting on the state of the country, I would look towards the states that have historically ranked poorly in education and see why they’re never improving. California is definitely not one of those states & seems to have no issue in keeping a higher than average educated populace.
  - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    Looking at derivatives would make the danger these policies present to California students clear.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    From the article: On national standardized tests, California ranks in the bottom quartile among all states and U.S. territories for 8th grade math scores.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- worried4future 5y ago
  > as a means of promoting equity Denying high-preforming, or average preforming students access to appropriate education in the service of "equity" reminds me of this: https://unwokenarrative.com/content/images/2021/06/image-3.png https://unwokenarrative.com/content/images/2021/06/image-3.p... The people doing this are destroying the future of these children and our nation as a whole. It should be criminal but I fear an idiocracy-like future where no one is smart enough to realize how stupid we have become.
Jach 5y ago
For another data point, I took it in 7th grade too, that was only--oh god 2003 was nearly 20 years ago. Anyway, it was considered one year early for my public school district in Utah. Me and a few others in my 6th grade class who had good math grades were offered the chance to sign up for it early if we were able to pass a test administered by the junior high. I don't remember what the test had on it, I do remember asking people around me (at least parents and GED-holding brother) "What is algebra anyway?" and not receiving an answer, but somehow I passed. One friend also passed but didn't sign up, instead doing "pre-algebra" like most kids, which made me sad. (I'd guess the test had things like "if x + 3 = 10, multiple choice what is x?" as sort of a sink-or-swim filter, or maybe just some more advanced examples of whatever the 6th grade curriculum entailed.)
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Ditto, 7th grade in Colorado. Yeah, they called it advanced, but they called everything advanced. You know the drill: grade school math is always "advanced," grad school math is always "introductory."
  - goalieca 5y ago
    True that. I finally learned some basic algebra in grad school. I also learned just how far from advanced I really was.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
s5300 5y ago
> then the situation in California must be deteriorating severely. Hmm… Worlds 5th largest GDP, internationally desirable cities, some of the highest housing prices that’s always being bought over asking price, often in cash - internationally acclaimed state wide university system, one of the cultural & academic centers of the nation… I know it’s like, my opinion, but I think the situation in California is fine. I’d look towards the states that have ranked last & near last in education for decades without any movement in a better direction before commenting on California. Even more, for those who do well enough in k-12 in those dead last states… well, they brain drain to greener pastures. Like California.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Argentina used to be one of the richest countries in the world. Things looked fine there too, until they longer were.
- JPKab 5y ago
  How many of the employees in these companies that make the GDP so high were born, raised, and educated in California? You know damned well that it's not many. California is a success because of immigrants from other countries and states. Think about the founders of the current top valuation tech companies in California. How many were raised in California? Zuck? Nope. Maryland. Sergey Brin? Nope, educated in Maryland as well. Larry Page? Nope, raised and educated in Michigan. Steve Jobs was educated in California, 60 years ago, so you've got that. Not relevant to this conversation. What about his successor Tim Cook? Oops, he was raised and educated in Alabama. Reed Hastings? Nope, raised and educated in Boston. So while the above proves your final point, it basically highlights the fact that California does well for structural and historical reasons, like the fact that many VCs required any company they invested in to relocate to the Valley, and other things like network effects.
  - reducesuffering 5y ago
    Peter Thiel, Reid Hoffman (LinkedIn), Ben Horowitz (a16z), and many more. While you have some point, the Bay Area only raises so many kids while it's economic engine is unprecedented in attracting intelligent folks from around the world.
JPKab 5y ago
I attended underfunded rural public schools as well. The funding of a school district will often correlate with student performance, but in most subjects, it's not a causal link. Kids with families who value education do better. Kids with parents who punish them if they don't do their homework do better. When you isolate for income, there are large discrepancies in success between various cultural groups. Appalachian whites (my family) don't do well compared to many groups of the same income. The culture doesn't prize education, and even views it as being effeminate or "selling out". But that's only a small piece. A big piece of it is that parents don't give a shit about their kid's success in school, and that is very big in certain cultures. My wife is the daughter of Filipino immigrants, and from the day my son started 1st grade, if he doesn't get all As, the attitude is that he has failed. At one point, I was going to argue with her, but I looked at my siblings, and my cousins (primarily white trash losers), and then looked at her family's success, and decided that she knew something I didn't. My son has a TV and an Xbox in his room. The controllers and remotes are all kept locked away in my closet. If he doesn't get straight A's on his report card, all of it stays locked in my closet, even on weekends. We did this in the Fall of 2020 when he got all A's and a B+ in one class. He went all of the spring semester with no access to his TV or video games. He got them back in the summer after getting straight A's on his report card. (He's a 10th grader now). Contrast this with my poor, white working class siblings and how they raise their sons. My sister frequently complains about how bad her son's grades are (he's the same age as my son) and throws her hands in the air as if she's unable to do anything about it. He has multiple game systems in his room, and the last time I visited, when I woke up to take a piss, his light was on and he was playing games at 3 AM. This was a day after she had complained about his low C average. She coddles him, has low expectations for him, and ignores her own obvious parenting failures. She's a great representation for why so many American public schools are filled with thoroughly mediocre students. If you have kids, get the fucking electronics out of their hands. If they aren't bored and regularly bugging you about being bored, it's probably because they are being entertained by their smartphones or video games, and you are fucking up as a parent. Look at Nigerian American parents, or Asian American parents. Instead of doing what my redneck sister and many others do, and rationalizing the obvious differences by assuming that "they are too strict and are raising maladjusted nerds", imitate them. They will happily share their parenting strategies with you, and rule number one is that they aren't their kid's friends. They don't give a shit if their kids like them NOW. They care if their kids will like them when they are winning as adults. Far too many successful people I meet complain about their parents being too hard on them, never stopping to look around at their current success and realizing that their parents made it possible.
candybar 5y ago
Did you take standard high-school Algebra 1 in 7th grade? Algebraic concepts are often taught as early as 3rd grade, but much of it is considered pre-Algebra.
- Eelongate 5y ago
  > standard high-school Algebra I didn't take Algebra in highschool, so.. maybe? 5th and 6th grade were called Pre-Algebra. 7th and 8th were Algebra. 9th was Geometry, 10th was Trig, and 11th and 12th were Calc.

RandallBrown 5y ago

I took algebra in 7th grade as well, but it was considered advanced by 2 years. It was normal to take algebra in 9th grade. I went to an okay high school in a medium sized city in Michigan. That was about 20 years ago.

function_seven 5y ago

When I was in 5th grade, I was put into the advanced math class. We graphed equations, learned y=mx+b, slopes, etc. All the basic concepts that are introduced in Algebra 1. When I was in 7th grade, we were taught "what a negative number is." That entire year was a complete and utter waste. But fortunately, 8th grade offered Algebra where I could get back on track. This was 30 years ago, in California. Public school math standards are a joke here, and apparently getting even worse.

bko 5y ago

I don't know what to tell you. That's the state of the country. But hey, at least they're honest about why they're doing it: > San Francisco pioneered key aspects of the new approach, opting in 2014 to delay algebra instruction until 9th grade and to push advanced mathematics courses until at least after 10th grade as a means of promoting equity. The school failed the most vulnerable children by objective measures, so they're just trying to get rid of those measures entirely.

nimish 5y ago
Yep it seems like the "equitable" solution to failing children is to simply redefine success. Really, truly worrying that instead of focusing resources to help kids improve and overcome a challenge the answer is to remove the challenge instead.
s5300 5y ago
When commenting on the state of the country, I would look towards the states that have historically ranked poorly in education and see why they’re never improving. California is definitely not one of those states & seems to have no issue in keeping a higher than average educated populace.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Looking at derivatives would make the danger these policies present to California students clear.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  From the article: On national standardized tests, California ranks in the bottom quartile among all states and U.S. territories for 8th grade math scores.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
worried4future 5y ago
> as a means of promoting equity Denying high-preforming, or average preforming students access to appropriate education in the service of "equity" reminds me of this: https://unwokenarrative.com/content/images/2021/06/image-3.png https://unwokenarrative.com/content/images/2021/06/image-3.p... The people doing this are destroying the future of these children and our nation as a whole. It should be criminal but I fear an idiocracy-like future where no one is smart enough to realize how stupid we have become.

Jach 5y ago

For another data point, I took it in 7th grade too, that was only--oh god 2003 was nearly 20 years ago. Anyway, it was considered one year early for my public school district in Utah. Me and a few others in my 6th grade class who had good math grades were offered the chance to sign up for it early if we were able to pass a test administered by the junior high. I don't remember what the test had on it, I do remember asking people around me (at least parents and GED-holding brother) "What is algebra anyway?" and not receiving an answer, but somehow I passed. One friend also passed but didn't sign up, instead doing "pre-algebra" like most kids, which made me sad. (I'd guess the test had things like "if x + 3 = 10, multiple choice what is x?" as sort of a sink-or-swim filter, or maybe just some more advanced examples of whatever the 6th grade curriculum entailed.)

jjoonathan 5y ago
Ditto, 7th grade in Colorado. Yeah, they called it advanced, but they called everything advanced. You know the drill: grade school math is always "advanced," grad school math is always "introductory."
- goalieca 5y ago
  True that. I finally learned some basic algebra in grad school. I also learned just how far from advanced I really was.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

s5300 5y ago

> then the situation in California must be deteriorating severely. Hmm… Worlds 5th largest GDP, internationally desirable cities, some of the highest housing prices that’s always being bought over asking price, often in cash - internationally acclaimed state wide university system, one of the cultural & academic centers of the nation… I know it’s like, my opinion, but I think the situation in California is fine. I’d look towards the states that have ranked last & near last in education for decades without any movement in a better direction before commenting on California. Even more, for those who do well enough in k-12 in those dead last states… well, they brain drain to greener pastures. Like California.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Argentina used to be one of the richest countries in the world. Things looked fine there too, until they longer were.
JPKab 5y ago
How many of the employees in these companies that make the GDP so high were born, raised, and educated in California? You know damned well that it's not many. California is a success because of immigrants from other countries and states. Think about the founders of the current top valuation tech companies in California. How many were raised in California? Zuck? Nope. Maryland. Sergey Brin? Nope, educated in Maryland as well. Larry Page? Nope, raised and educated in Michigan. Steve Jobs was educated in California, 60 years ago, so you've got that. Not relevant to this conversation. What about his successor Tim Cook? Oops, he was raised and educated in Alabama. Reed Hastings? Nope, raised and educated in Boston. So while the above proves your final point, it basically highlights the fact that California does well for structural and historical reasons, like the fact that many VCs required any company they invested in to relocate to the Valley, and other things like network effects.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  Peter Thiel, Reid Hoffman (LinkedIn), Ben Horowitz (a16z), and many more. While you have some point, the Bay Area only raises so many kids while it's economic engine is unprecedented in attracting intelligent folks from around the world.

JPKab 5y ago

I attended underfunded rural public schools as well. The funding of a school district will often correlate with student performance, but in most subjects, it's not a causal link. Kids with families who value education do better. Kids with parents who punish them if they don't do their homework do better. When you isolate for income, there are large discrepancies in success between various cultural groups. Appalachian whites (my family) don't do well compared to many groups of the same income. The culture doesn't prize education, and even views it as being effeminate or "selling out". But that's only a small piece. A big piece of it is that parents don't give a shit about their kid's success in school, and that is very big in certain cultures. My wife is the daughter of Filipino immigrants, and from the day my son started 1st grade, if he doesn't get all As, the attitude is that he has failed. At one point, I was going to argue with her, but I looked at my siblings, and my cousins (primarily white trash losers), and then looked at her family's success, and decided that she knew something I didn't. My son has a TV and an Xbox in his room. The controllers and remotes are all kept locked away in my closet. If he doesn't get straight A's on his report card, all of it stays locked in my closet, even on weekends. We did this in the Fall of 2020 when he got all A's and a B+ in one class. He went all of the spring semester with no access to his TV or video games. He got them back in the summer after getting straight A's on his report card. (He's a 10th grader now). Contrast this with my poor, white working class siblings and how they raise their sons. My sister frequently complains about how bad her son's grades are (he's the same age as my son) and throws her hands in the air as if she's unable to do anything about it. He has multiple game systems in his room, and the last time I visited, when I woke up to take a piss, his light was on and he was playing games at 3 AM. This was a day after she had complained about his low C average. She coddles him, has low expectations for him, and ignores her own obvious parenting failures. She's a great representation for why so many American public schools are filled with thoroughly mediocre students. If you have kids, get the fucking electronics out of their hands. If they aren't bored and regularly bugging you about being bored, it's probably because they are being entertained by their smartphones or video games, and you are fucking up as a parent. Look at Nigerian American parents, or Asian American parents. Instead of doing what my redneck sister and many others do, and rationalizing the obvious differences by assuming that "they are too strict and are raising maladjusted nerds", imitate them. They will happily share their parenting strategies with you, and rule number one is that they aren't their kid's friends. They don't give a shit if their kids like them NOW. They care if their kids will like them when they are winning as adults. Far too many successful people I meet complain about their parents being too hard on them, never stopping to look around at their current success and realizing that their parents made it possible.

candybar 5y ago

Did you take standard high-school Algebra 1 in 7th grade? Algebraic concepts are often taught as early as 3rd grade, but much of it is considered pre-Algebra.

Eelongate 5y ago
> standard high-school Algebra I didn't take Algebra in highschool, so.. maybe? 5th and 6th grade were called Pre-Algebra. 7th and 8th were Algebra. 9th was Geometry, 10th was Trig, and 11th and 12th were Calc.