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> I stopped heeding their recommendations after I discovered that they were aggressively persuing kickbacks and refusing to review products that do not pay. Le

by kfreds 5y ago

> I stopped heeding their recommendations after I discovered that they were aggressively persuing kickbacks and refusing to review products that do not pay. Let me offer a counterexample - VPN services. They didn’t get a cent from Mullvad, which they declared the winner. Number two was IVPN, which also doesn’t have an affiliate program. The review: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-vpn-service/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-vpn-service/

howinteresting 5y ago
While my experience with Wirecutter has been decidedly mixed, Mullvad really does seem to be the best VPN around.
- kfreds 5y ago
  Thank you!
  - howinteresting 5y ago
    Ahh I didn't realize you were one of the founders of Mullvad! Thanks for all your work :)
is_true 5y ago
Why do you think they didn't get money from them?
- kfreds 5y ago
  Mullvad: I know it for a fact, because I'm one of the founders. IVPN: I don't know it, but I've met Nick Pestell (the founder) several times, and he's told me they don't pay for reviews. I trust him.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    I hope you enjoy the random cards of cash I send every month! I quite enjoy your product!
  - is_true 5y ago
    I have an abandoned tech blog and I usually get asked by marketing firms to include links in old articles as part of SEO services they have.
  - mox1 5y ago
    Ahh, this is why one must be careful when responding to seemingly random people on hacker news, there's a pretty good chance the CEO, head researcher , worlds fore-most expert on the topic, etc. is actually here reading the article. :)
    - kfreds 5y ago
      To be fair I think is_true's question is excellent. If anything I should have clarified where I was coming from in my first post. Ultimately I opted for keeping it shorter. I agree though, it is a real joy to lurk a HN thread on J. Random topic and be treated to high-signal conversations. :)
  - ksec 5y ago
    >Mullvad: I know it for a fact, because I'm one of the founders. I cant stop laughing :) Forgive me if I have asked this before. Have you ever considered a Pay as you Go model with minimum top up fees? $50 for 50GB with no expiry you can use it for life? Or is that model that generally dont work because it seems all PAYG VPN services go bust.
    - kfreds 5y ago
      > Forgive me if I have asked this before. Have you ever considered a Pay as you Go model with minimum top up fees? $50 for 50GB with no expiry you can use it for life? Yes, but I can't recall the reasons we discarded the idea. Something like this perhaps: In general I like the idea of VPN as a utility - anonymous internet on tap. Utility-like services in functioning markets compete on price to the benefit of the consumer. On the other hand, things that look like one-dimensional utilities to the consumer isn't always. A service category where there's plenty of innovation potential left shouldn't pretend to be a utility. Especially players who aim to improve state-of-the-art. A pay-as-you-go model encourages consumers to compare quantities of something that is quite disconnected from the quality of what they get. Paying per month makes more sense to me for another reason as well - It's similar to what we do with our suppliers.
boardwaalk 5y ago
That they didn’t do this for a single product category doesn’t mean very much, though.
- kfreds 5y ago
  It does mean something. I can only testify to how they acted in our case of course, but what I can contribute is this: In a product category which is famous for its high-paying affiliate programs, they chose two players who are smaller and less well-known. Neither of them paid for their reviews. Most of their competitors mentioned in the article do have affiliate programs.
tedmiston 5y ago
Well, to be fair, their guides focus much more on physical products than SaaS. They can get third party affiliate revenue from Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot, etc in a program covering lots of products. Is there a B&M store analogy for SaaS? [The rest of this comment is in response to parent comments more than your's directly.] IMO The xdesk guy seems to be stretching reality way, way, way too far to claim that Wirecutter guides are influenced by whether or not affiliate revenue is offered on the purchase links just because Wirecutter repeatedly tried to get an affiliate program in place. Of course, they need a business model of some sort, and affiliate programs are what most, or at least many, review guide sites seem to choose. Also, Wirecutter has never specialized in recommending the highest end options. A lot of their guides recommend a best choice for most people at some tradeoff of quality and cost. It's no surprise at all that the standing desk guide was iterated in that direction. And, even after no affiliate program, they didn't dis-recommend the xdesk desk, they just made it an upgrade pick recommendation. Personally, I am skeptical that a typical Wirecutter reader is actually interested in spending $1500 on a great standing when they can get a pretty nice one for $500. The update makes reasonable sense to me.

by kfreds 5y ago

howinteresting 5y ago

While my experience with Wirecutter has been decidedly mixed, Mullvad really does seem to be the best VPN around.

kfreds 5y ago
Thank you!
- howinteresting 5y ago
  Ahh I didn't realize you were one of the founders of Mullvad! Thanks for all your work :)

is_true 5y ago

Why do you think they didn't get money from them?

kfreds 5y ago
Mullvad: I know it for a fact, because I'm one of the founders. IVPN: I don't know it, but I've met Nick Pestell (the founder) several times, and he's told me they don't pay for reviews. I trust him.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  I hope you enjoy the random cards of cash I send every month! I quite enjoy your product!
- is_true 5y ago
  I have an abandoned tech blog and I usually get asked by marketing firms to include links in old articles as part of SEO services they have.
- mox1 5y ago
  Ahh, this is why one must be careful when responding to seemingly random people on hacker news, there's a pretty good chance the CEO, head researcher , worlds fore-most expert on the topic, etc. is actually here reading the article. :)
  - kfreds 5y ago
    To be fair I think is_true's question is excellent. If anything I should have clarified where I was coming from in my first post. Ultimately I opted for keeping it shorter. I agree though, it is a real joy to lurk a HN thread on J. Random topic and be treated to high-signal conversations. :)
- ksec 5y ago
  >Mullvad: I know it for a fact, because I'm one of the founders. I cant stop laughing :) Forgive me if I have asked this before. Have you ever considered a Pay as you Go model with minimum top up fees? $50 for 50GB with no expiry you can use it for life? Or is that model that generally dont work because it seems all PAYG VPN services go bust.
  - kfreds 5y ago
    > Forgive me if I have asked this before. Have you ever considered a Pay as you Go model with minimum top up fees? $50 for 50GB with no expiry you can use it for life? Yes, but I can't recall the reasons we discarded the idea. Something like this perhaps: In general I like the idea of VPN as a utility - anonymous internet on tap. Utility-like services in functioning markets compete on price to the benefit of the consumer. On the other hand, things that look like one-dimensional utilities to the consumer isn't always. A service category where there's plenty of innovation potential left shouldn't pretend to be a utility. Especially players who aim to improve state-of-the-art. A pay-as-you-go model encourages consumers to compare quantities of something that is quite disconnected from the quality of what they get. Paying per month makes more sense to me for another reason as well - It's similar to what we do with our suppliers.

boardwaalk 5y ago

That they didn’t do this for a single product category doesn’t mean very much, though.

kfreds 5y ago
It does mean something. I can only testify to how they acted in our case of course, but what I can contribute is this: In a product category which is famous for its high-paying affiliate programs, they chose two players who are smaller and less well-known. Neither of them paid for their reviews. Most of their competitors mentioned in the article do have affiliate programs.

tedmiston 5y ago

Well, to be fair, their guides focus much more on physical products than SaaS. They can get third party affiliate revenue from Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot, etc in a program covering lots of products. Is there a B&M store analogy for SaaS? [The rest of this comment is in response to parent comments more than your's directly.] IMO The xdesk guy seems to be stretching reality way, way, way too far to claim that Wirecutter guides are influenced by whether or not affiliate revenue is offered on the purchase links just because Wirecutter repeatedly tried to get an affiliate program in place. Of course, they need a business model of some sort, and affiliate programs are what most, or at least many, review guide sites seem to choose. Also, Wirecutter has never specialized in recommending the highest end options. A lot of their guides recommend a best choice for most people at some tradeoff of quality and cost. It's no surprise at all that the standing desk guide was iterated in that direction. And, even after no affiliate program, they didn't dis-recommend the xdesk desk, they just made it an upgrade pick recommendation. Personally, I am skeptical that a typical Wirecutter reader is actually interested in spending $1500 on a great standing when they can get a pretty nice one for $500. The update makes reasonable sense to me.