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The examples listed are Honda Element and Nissan Murrano, which are decidedly not small, fuel efficient vehicles but instead blown-up heavier counterparts built

The examples listed are Honda Element and Nissan Murrano, which are decidedly not small, fuel efficient vehicles but instead blown-up heavier counterparts built on a shared platform with a 4 cylinder engine. These cars are often less practical than their smaller, more fuel-efficient counterparts. So these are not exactly arguments against buying smaller, lighter and more fuel efficient cars. One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability. This allows bigger, less efficient cars compete with the more efficient ones because the sale price ends up being close enough to the more efficient counterparts for this to not matter.

rsj_hn 5y ago
> One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability This was true like in the 1990s. It hasn't been true in a very long time (almost 20 years now). The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold.
- rascul 5y ago
  > The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold. Edmunds has the 2004 H1 at 7,608 lbs. [0] and the 2009 H2 at 6,614 lbs. [1] 2004 and 2009 are the newest Edmunds has for those models. Looks like the new GMC Hummer EV is going to be over 9,000 lbs. [2] The lightest 2022 Chevrolet Tahoe that I could find on Edmunds was 5,473 lbs. [3] [0] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/ [1] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/ [2] https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-edition-1-weight-official/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-ed... [3] https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    My mistake, the limit isn't 5000 but 8500 pounds. In 2027 these will also be covered under fuel-efficiency standards. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-dont-heavy-duty-trucks-have-to-report-to-the-epa/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-dont-heavy-duty-trucks-have...

rsj_hn 5y ago

> One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability This was true like in the 1990s. It hasn't been true in a very long time (almost 20 years now). The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold.

rascul 5y ago
> The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold. Edmunds has the 2004 H1 at 7,608 lbs. [0] and the 2009 H2 at 6,614 lbs. [1] 2004 and 2009 are the newest Edmunds has for those models. Looks like the new GMC Hummer EV is going to be over 9,000 lbs. [2] The lightest 2022 Chevrolet Tahoe that I could find on Edmunds was 5,473 lbs. [3] [0] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/ [1] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/ [2] https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-edition-1-weight-official/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-ed... [3] https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  My mistake, the limit isn't 5000 but 8500 pounds. In 2027 these will also be covered under fuel-efficiency standards. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-dont-heavy-duty-trucks-have-to-report-to-the-epa/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-dont-heavy-duty-trucks-have...