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> Because there's no reason not to There are multiple reasons that have already been discussed in this thread > quite literally every other GPU vendor has sup

> Because there's no reason not to There are multiple reasons that have already been discussed in this thread > quite literally every other GPU vendor has supported Vulkan alongside DirectX. 1. Apple is not a GPU vendor. 2. There are many systems that don't support Vulkan and potentially never will These have also been discussed here, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29312314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29312314 > Metal has clear and obvious shortcomings So does Vulkan > so Apple continuing to expect developers to "just use it" won't ever get them the support that they desperately need And in the same breath you go ahead an say this: > Apple has the most liquid cash out of any company in the world right now Something tells me, Apple really doesn't "desperately need" developer support via Vulkan. Let's see, Metal is supported by MacOS, iOS, Apple TV. This is probably more devices than Vulkan supports. > Creating a second version of your software just to run on Apple devices, that needs to be bug-fixed and maintained separately is a suicide mission. You need to do that regardless of Vulkan. Vulkan is not some magical thing that will make your code run on every system in existence. As the linked comment correctly says, Vulkan is virtually non-existent outside of PCs. --- Edit: It's very much Direct X vs OpenGL discussion all over again. Microsoft stuck to Direct X and eventually provided the API all developers target. OpenGL is basically relegated to the annals of history with very bad memories, as a bad designed-by-committee API that was two steps behind and several steps sideways. See this amazing post down the memory lane: https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/60544/why-do-game-developers-prefer-windows/88055#88055 https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/6054... Vulkan will suffer the same fate: designed by committee, consoles and smartphones don't care about it, main API on Windows is Direct X, main API on Apple systems is Metal.

kcb 5y ago
/Shrug I would buy a new MacBook Pro if it supported Vulkan. I am not a game developer. I just want DXVK and Wine to run well for light gaming on my multithousand dollar laptop with high end gpu. Your argument is pretty much Apple shouldn't implement Vulkan because they haven't done it yet. https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/graphics https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/graphics
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > I would buy a new MacBook Pro if it supported Vulkan. Apple will surely suffer. > Your argument is pretty much Apple shouldn't implement Vulkan because they haven't done it yet. It's not, and you would know it if you'd actually read it. > https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/graphics https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/graphics The actual link you wanted to provide is this: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards 34% of Androids don't support Vulkan at all
  - kcb 5y ago
    Wow! 66% of Android devices support Vulkan. That's amazing. Thanks for finding that.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      Yes. A billion devices don't support Vulkan, and never will. And that's just Android. But yeah, sure tell me how you won't need to create a different version of software just because of Vulkan. Meanwhile, Metal is supported on all Apple devices (starting with A7 chip), and given how "Apple has the most liquid cash out of any company in the world right now" (your words), they are not in a "desperate need" of developers supporting their systems.
dhruvdh 5y ago
> Let's see, Metal is supported by MacOS, iOS, Apple TV. This is probably more devices than Vulkan supports. What world do you live in? How hard is it to do a quick google search before declaring obvious falsehoods? > You need to do that regardless of Vulkan. Vulkan is not some magical thing that will make your code run on every system in existence. As the linked comment correctly says, Vulkan is virtually non-existent outside of PCs. How is it that you have time to write all this but not time to even bother reading the linked comment? > Vulkan is virtually non-existent outside of PCs. Lol.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > How hard is it to do a quick google search before declaring obvious falsehoods? Where did you find a falsehood? In my statement that Metal runs on iOS devices? Or in my jab (not a fact) that it's probably more than devices that support Vulkan? > How is it that you have time to write all this but not time to even bother reading the linked comment? Let me quote that comment for you and split it into byte-sized chunks --- start quote --- ...you can't just have a Vulkan-only implementation. There's plenty of old computers that don't support Vulkan. PlayStation doesn't support Vulkan - better use GNM, GNMX, and PSSL. Xbox only uses DirectX, which has both high and low-level variants, no Vulkan there. iOS is Metal only again. You could use Vulkan on the Nintendo Switch, but NVN is faster and the preferred method. You might get away with just Vulkan if you were targeting only Windows, Linux, and Android on hardware that isn't more than roughly 5-6 years old. Outside of the PC, Vulkan isn't really that broadly-supported. --- end quote --- Now. Who of us read the comment, and who of us read and understood the comment? Edit: So: - About 3 billion consumer devices that don't have and will never have Vulkan support (Apple devices, Playstations, Xboxes) - Another billion or so that run Windows where the main graphics API is DirectX, and Vulkan is provided not by the OS manufacturer, but by third parties (GPU vendors). And a large chunk of those are also PCs that will never get Viulkan support (because hardware doesn't support it, or the OS is out fo date etc.) - A full third of Android devices don't support Vulkan, and never will But yeah. Apple must support Vulkan because ... reasons?
  - dhruvdh 5y ago
    Either you are being intentionally dense just to keep arguing or you are a lost cause. Either way, I am not going to bother responding.

kcb 5y ago

/Shrug I would buy a new MacBook Pro if it supported Vulkan. I am not a game developer. I just want DXVK and Wine to run well for light gaming on my multithousand dollar laptop with high end gpu. Your argument is pretty much Apple shouldn't implement Vulkan because they haven't done it yet. https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/graphics https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/graphics

dmitriid 5y ago
> I would buy a new MacBook Pro if it supported Vulkan. Apple will surely suffer. > Your argument is pretty much Apple shouldn't implement Vulkan because they haven't done it yet. It's not, and you would know it if you'd actually read it. > https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/graphics https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/graphics The actual link you wanted to provide is this: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards 34% of Androids don't support Vulkan at all
- kcb 5y ago
  Wow! 66% of Android devices support Vulkan. That's amazing. Thanks for finding that.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    Yes. A billion devices don't support Vulkan, and never will. And that's just Android. But yeah, sure tell me how you won't need to create a different version of software just because of Vulkan. Meanwhile, Metal is supported on all Apple devices (starting with A7 chip), and given how "Apple has the most liquid cash out of any company in the world right now" (your words), they are not in a "desperate need" of developers supporting their systems.

dhruvdh 5y ago

> Let's see, Metal is supported by MacOS, iOS, Apple TV. This is probably more devices than Vulkan supports. What world do you live in? How hard is it to do a quick google search before declaring obvious falsehoods? > You need to do that regardless of Vulkan. Vulkan is not some magical thing that will make your code run on every system in existence. As the linked comment correctly says, Vulkan is virtually non-existent outside of PCs. How is it that you have time to write all this but not time to even bother reading the linked comment? > Vulkan is virtually non-existent outside of PCs. Lol.

dmitriid 5y ago
> How hard is it to do a quick google search before declaring obvious falsehoods? Where did you find a falsehood? In my statement that Metal runs on iOS devices? Or in my jab (not a fact) that it's probably more than devices that support Vulkan? > How is it that you have time to write all this but not time to even bother reading the linked comment? Let me quote that comment for you and split it into byte-sized chunks --- start quote --- ...you can't just have a Vulkan-only implementation. There's plenty of old computers that don't support Vulkan. PlayStation doesn't support Vulkan - better use GNM, GNMX, and PSSL. Xbox only uses DirectX, which has both high and low-level variants, no Vulkan there. iOS is Metal only again. You could use Vulkan on the Nintendo Switch, but NVN is faster and the preferred method. You might get away with just Vulkan if you were targeting only Windows, Linux, and Android on hardware that isn't more than roughly 5-6 years old. Outside of the PC, Vulkan isn't really that broadly-supported. --- end quote --- Now. Who of us read the comment, and who of us read and understood the comment? Edit: So: - About 3 billion consumer devices that don't have and will never have Vulkan support (Apple devices, Playstations, Xboxes) - Another billion or so that run Windows where the main graphics API is DirectX, and Vulkan is provided not by the OS manufacturer, but by third parties (GPU vendors). And a large chunk of those are also PCs that will never get Viulkan support (because hardware doesn't support it, or the OS is out fo date etc.) - A full third of Android devices don't support Vulkan, and never will But yeah. Apple must support Vulkan because ... reasons?
- dhruvdh 5y ago
  Either you are being intentionally dense just to keep arguing or you are a lost cause. Either way, I am not going to bother responding.