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It's so curious that cocaine is still illegal, one could assume purely as a side effect of the nations that produce it and the complications that are involved w

by 0des 5y ago

It's so curious that cocaine is still illegal, one could assume purely as a side effect of the nations that produce it and the complications that are involved with those in charge of distributing it, which some might argue is a byproduct of it being illegal in the first place. When taken on its own, it's a surprisingly mild stimulant as a nasal snuff, not at all like in the movies. When taken nasally, it has a short half life, low potential for adverse side effects in normal adults, and only causes alcohol like euphoria in the highest doses. I can see why it is still used in medicine, it is highly efficacious, and some day I can see it being tolerated, if not legalized. It might just be me being old, as we tend to remember the positives more than the negatives, but this was a nice trip down memory lane. It is unfortunate that the hobby has settled/devolved into its lowest element, these days.

unethical_ban 5y ago
I haven't used it, but I am in principle tolerant of drug use. The three metrics of legalization/safety I have heard are: Level of addiction, Ease of overdose, and long term health impact. You say cocaine in small amounts is a dandy stimulant. I take Adderall for ADHD occasionally, and I've been told by those who have used both that the differences in effect are smaller than one might guess. And while I suppose I could OD by taking a bunch of Adderall pills, I don't have a "drive" to keep on taking more for a short term hit. My rambling is to say: My impression of cocaine use is that it does long term damage to the body and the nasal cavity, and that its short-term high makes people chase it more and thus is ripe for OD. So I'm not too shocked that it's a controlled substance vs. something like cannabis.
- kortex 5y ago
  Cocaine also induces microischemia - basically constricts your capillaries and starves the neurons/glia of oxygen. This happens slowly over time and is cumulative. As mentioned, coke is high on the abuse potential scale due to its rapid onset and withdrawal, short loop between behavior and reward. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/brains-blood-cocaine https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/brains-blood-cocaine
  - ycombinete 5y ago
    Not to mention that people are highly functional while high on it. So there’s no downtime on when you can be high.
  - runnerup 5y ago
    Alcohol also causes ischemia. Prescription amphetamines also cause ischemia but are legal. > As mentioned, coke is high on the abuse potential scale due to its rapid onset and withdrawal, short loop between behavior and reward. I wonder if attaching an amino acid (a la Vyvanse) would improve its pharmacokinetic profile to reduce this addiction potential. We'll never know, because its not legal to do research on medical potential for Schedule I drugs.
- TylerE 5y ago
  You, adderall is litwrallymphramacuetical grade amphetamine.
antiterra 5y ago
I have a friend who dabbled in coke for a few weeks. I hung out with her once while she was high, and she was uncharacteristically mean. At some point she decided her life was becoming too focused on doing coke and told me she was selling what she had left. It took a while for her to finally commit to her last dose, but she managed to get rid of the cocaine, largely motivated by the money she would recover. For weeks after, she would crave and daydream about cocaine. The fact that, despite being able to quit, she missed it that much made me decide to never ever try it. I know people get addicted to games or gambling or whatever else, but it seemed pretty bad.
- __alexs 5y ago
  Everyone I have ever met who is on cocaine has been a complete ass for the duration. Even people that I normally get on with just become utterly intolerable and blind to the damage it's doing to their relationships with people aren't taking.
  - thrashh 5y ago
    I don’t condone cocaine but I can bet you a lot more people aren’t telling you that they’re on cocaine.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - __alexs 5y ago
      Buddy we know when you're on cocaine were just polite about it.
      - standardUser 5y ago
        You're clearly projecting in a massive way. I know plenty of people who do coke, some regularly some rarely, and they are among the nicest people I know, primarily because I don't associate with people who aren't generally nice. Sounds like you were just associating with pricks and those pricks happened to use a popular drug.
Jonovono 5y ago
Of course it should be legal. But the way you talk about it is so bizarre. Cocaine has ruined so many lives. It's incredibly addicting to some. It can destroy your nose, literally putting holes inside of it.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  It's a lot safer if you just eat it, similar effects and method of action to Ritalin.
  - spurgu 5y ago
    Yup, that's my preferred method of intake. Quick, easy, clean. I don't understand why people bother making lines, or using spoons or whatnot. Sure, the onset is a bit slower, but I'm rarely in that kind of a hurry. Edit: Interesting that someone would downvote something that is purely subjective.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      Insufflation generally makes a compound more bioavailable and gives a higher peak but a far shorter duration. It can take 100mg orally to get a normal bump effect. So people view it as wasting coke, but the effects can last 4-6 hours.
    - cwkoss 5y ago
      A former pope used and endorsed a coca wine back in the day. Seems it was very popular for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin_Mariani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin_Mariani
      - maneesh 5y ago
        Also one of Thomas Edison's favorite drinks! He's famous for rarely sleeping and working continuously -- I wonder how much of the effects are due to Vin Mariani vs his natural work ethic.
    - orhmeh09 5y ago
malfist 5y ago
Doesn't a coke habit permanently mess with your dopamine receptors? Literally makes it harder for you to function as a human, even after you stop. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
- standardUser 5y ago
  Cocaine is a far more mild stimulant than most prescription speed. Though it is sometimes cut with more potent stimulants.
- whalesalad 5y ago
  Same is true for any stimulant, like legally prescribed ADHD medication.
- billjings 5y ago
  Yep. Same as a regular Ritalin or Adderall habit: when you stop taking them, you have a withdrawal effect. That convinces many that the drugs work. ("Look at what a mess I am without it!") The withdrawal from a serious coke addiction has got to be much more severe, though.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > Doesn't a coke habit permanently mess with your dopamine receptors? Literally makes it harder for you to function as a human, even after you stop. Not really... Your body is really good at adapting and your body will compensate when drugs put it out of homeostasis, when your you stop taking those drugs your body will stop compensating for it. You won't be "permanently" depressed after quitting a coke habit and you won't have "permanently" shrunk balls after quitting steroids etc. etc.
  - dr_kiszonka 5y ago
    I don't know about permanence, but some former steroid users suffer from prolonged hypogonadism, which causes testicular atrophy. 0. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23764075/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23764075/ 1. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161208 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
systemvoltage 5y ago
Deeply unpopular opinion here but I can attest to a few friends that sought help for Marijuana addiction. There is a whole community that's helping people get off of Marijuana: https://www.reddit.com/r/leaves/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leaves/ I am fine with legalization of many drugs but one has to watch out for excess and lack of moderation. And the stench, I smell Marijuana in my apartment complex and it has sort of ruined a beautiful courtyard. I wish it was not so potent and people really need to be courteous (same with Tobacco).
- exolymph 5y ago
  There is also /r/Petioles for people who want to moderate their usage :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Petioles/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Petioles/
- gwbas1c 5y ago
  What does that have to do with cocaine? They're different drugs, don't confuse the two.
  - beenBoutIT 5y ago
    The "addiction" doesn't have anything to do with particular drugs, it's an underlying flaw that can be triggered by more or less anything that's enjoyable enough and meets a few other requirements. Sex, gambling, food, eating one's own hair, huffing glue, cutting oneself, and the list just goes on. Dependency on the other hand is a tangible scientifically provable phenomenon that can be cured in a matter of days for any drug. Cocaine dependency is no different from caffeine or nicotine dependency and is over after 3 days of abstinence.
dzhiurgis 5y ago
> low potential for adverse side effects Something like 5% get heart attacks from it. Imagine going to a bar and 2-3 people just dying that night, every night.
- standardUser 5y ago
  Are you suggesting that out of every 100 people who consume cocaine on a given night, 5 of them have a heart attack? Even DARE didn't lie that outrageously.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    Or the the LD50 for doing coke is 20 times?
    - mhh__ 5y ago
      Source?
      - beenBoutIT 5y ago
        The heart attack stats are likely incorrect. An international WHO study on cocaine[0] concluded: "A majority of health consequences may not be directly attributed to cocaine use. Cocaine often contributes to or exacerbates the conditions reported, rather than causing them." "Few experts describe cocaine as invariably harmful to health. Cocaine-related problems are widely perceived to be more common and more severe for intensive, high-dosage users and very rare and much less severe for occasional, low-dosage users." 0. https://www.tni.org/files/article-downloads/200703081409275046.pdf https://www.tni.org/files/article-downloads/2007030814092750...
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    Ok, sorry. The stats is more like "cocaine causes 5% of all under 50 heart attacks" - https://www.healthline.com/health/cocaine-heart-attack#effects-on-the-heart https://www.healthline.com/health/cocaine-heart-attack#effec... While it's likely a trigger to pre-existing condition it's not really safe at all like many try to paint. Same goes to most drugs really - OD's are very easy to do once you are on a binge. I'm all in for recreational use, but these problems shouldn't be ignored. Keeping drugs illegal does not help, but having unmarked little baggies and candy all around little ones is very dangerous.
d0gsg0w00f 5y ago
I respectfully disagree that it should be legal. In my younger years I went through a month of hard use. It was awful. It makes you act completely out of character-more aggressive, less inhibitions when performing risky activities (e.g., speeding, theft, approaching members of the opposite sex), and you can actually do a lot of damage because, unlike alcohol, you are high functioning the whole time. I don't want to think about living in a society where that's legal.
- sojournerc 5y ago
  Respectfully, you learned that it's not for you, but do you think you deserved to go to jail for trying it? For me, everyone is entitled to make that decision, and if legal, a lot of the problems the black market creates go away, the largest of which is not imprisoning people for a victimless crime.
  - d0gsg0w00f 5y ago
    So you're saying that we should just punish the eventual crime of theft, not the factor that contributed to the theft. I can support that argument. However, there's also the fact that the substance is basically a harmful addictive poison. We spend so much time building legislation that prevents harmful chemicals from being sold to consumers. We punish companies for selling legal opiates due the harm it causes consumers. Why would we push to legalize a harmful chemical?
- cwkoss 5y ago
  > It makes you act completely out of character-more aggressive, less inhibitions when performing risky activities (e.g., speeding, theft, approaching members of the opposite sex), and you can actually do a lot of damage because, unlike alcohol, you are high functioning the whole time. I find it interesting that all the symptoms you list also result from wealth. Maybe being a billionaire should be illegal too.
cwkoss 5y ago
Cocaine is a local anesthetic AND a vasoconstrictor. So some surgeons will rub it into a cut to stop both bleeding and pain. Sure seems like it would be handy to have in a first aid kit, if it weren't for that pesky euphoria!
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
Coke is one of the drugs I'd be fine with staying illegal.
gwbas1c 5y ago
Oh gosh, I've seen enough people use cocaine that I wouldn't call it a "mild" stimulant by any stretch of my imagination. It's basically a stronger form of caffeine. One friend of mine with severe ADHD turns completely normal on it. Everyone else that I've seen use it becomes an asshole. I'm pretty open minded about letting adults choose what they want to do with their bodies, but I don't like being around people using coke. Edit: If it wasn't for the cardiac issues, I'd wonder if it would make a better ADHD medicine.

by 0des 5y ago

unethical_ban 5y ago

I haven't used it, but I am in principle tolerant of drug use. The three metrics of legalization/safety I have heard are: Level of addiction, Ease of overdose, and long term health impact. You say cocaine in small amounts is a dandy stimulant. I take Adderall for ADHD occasionally, and I've been told by those who have used both that the differences in effect are smaller than one might guess. And while I suppose I could OD by taking a bunch of Adderall pills, I don't have a "drive" to keep on taking more for a short term hit. My rambling is to say: My impression of cocaine use is that it does long term damage to the body and the nasal cavity, and that its short-term high makes people chase it more and thus is ripe for OD. So I'm not too shocked that it's a controlled substance vs. something like cannabis.

kortex 5y ago
Cocaine also induces microischemia - basically constricts your capillaries and starves the neurons/glia of oxygen. This happens slowly over time and is cumulative. As mentioned, coke is high on the abuse potential scale due to its rapid onset and withdrawal, short loop between behavior and reward. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/brains-blood-cocaine https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/brains-blood-cocaine
- ycombinete 5y ago
  Not to mention that people are highly functional while high on it. So there’s no downtime on when you can be high.
- runnerup 5y ago
  Alcohol also causes ischemia. Prescription amphetamines also cause ischemia but are legal. > As mentioned, coke is high on the abuse potential scale due to its rapid onset and withdrawal, short loop between behavior and reward. I wonder if attaching an amino acid (a la Vyvanse) would improve its pharmacokinetic profile to reduce this addiction potential. We'll never know, because its not legal to do research on medical potential for Schedule I drugs.
TylerE 5y ago
You, adderall is litwrallymphramacuetical grade amphetamine.

antiterra 5y ago

I have a friend who dabbled in coke for a few weeks. I hung out with her once while she was high, and she was uncharacteristically mean. At some point she decided her life was becoming too focused on doing coke and told me she was selling what she had left. It took a while for her to finally commit to her last dose, but she managed to get rid of the cocaine, largely motivated by the money she would recover. For weeks after, she would crave and daydream about cocaine. The fact that, despite being able to quit, she missed it that much made me decide to never ever try it. I know people get addicted to games or gambling or whatever else, but it seemed pretty bad.

__alexs 5y ago
Everyone I have ever met who is on cocaine has been a complete ass for the duration. Even people that I normally get on with just become utterly intolerable and blind to the damage it's doing to their relationships with people aren't taking.
- thrashh 5y ago
  I don’t condone cocaine but I can bet you a lot more people aren’t telling you that they’re on cocaine.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - __alexs 5y ago
    Buddy we know when you're on cocaine were just polite about it.
    - standardUser 5y ago
      You're clearly projecting in a massive way. I know plenty of people who do coke, some regularly some rarely, and they are among the nicest people I know, primarily because I don't associate with people who aren't generally nice. Sounds like you were just associating with pricks and those pricks happened to use a popular drug.

Jonovono 5y ago

Of course it should be legal. But the way you talk about it is so bizarre. Cocaine has ruined so many lives. It's incredibly addicting to some. It can destroy your nose, literally putting holes inside of it.

R0b0t1 5y ago
It's a lot safer if you just eat it, similar effects and method of action to Ritalin.
- spurgu 5y ago
  Yup, that's my preferred method of intake. Quick, easy, clean. I don't understand why people bother making lines, or using spoons or whatnot. Sure, the onset is a bit slower, but I'm rarely in that kind of a hurry. Edit: Interesting that someone would downvote something that is purely subjective.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Insufflation generally makes a compound more bioavailable and gives a higher peak but a far shorter duration. It can take 100mg orally to get a normal bump effect. So people view it as wasting coke, but the effects can last 4-6 hours.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    A former pope used and endorsed a coca wine back in the day. Seems it was very popular for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin_Mariani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin_Mariani
    - maneesh 5y ago
      Also one of Thomas Edison's favorite drinks! He's famous for rarely sleeping and working continuously -- I wonder how much of the effects are due to Vin Mariani vs his natural work ethic.
  - orhmeh09 5y ago

malfist 5y ago

Doesn't a coke habit permanently mess with your dopamine receptors? Literally makes it harder for you to function as a human, even after you stop. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

standardUser 5y ago
Cocaine is a far more mild stimulant than most prescription speed. Though it is sometimes cut with more potent stimulants.
whalesalad 5y ago
Same is true for any stimulant, like legally prescribed ADHD medication.
billjings 5y ago
Yep. Same as a regular Ritalin or Adderall habit: when you stop taking them, you have a withdrawal effect. That convinces many that the drugs work. ("Look at what a mess I am without it!") The withdrawal from a serious coke addiction has got to be much more severe, though.
rkk3 5y ago
> Doesn't a coke habit permanently mess with your dopamine receptors? Literally makes it harder for you to function as a human, even after you stop. Not really... Your body is really good at adapting and your body will compensate when drugs put it out of homeostasis, when your you stop taking those drugs your body will stop compensating for it. You won't be "permanently" depressed after quitting a coke habit and you won't have "permanently" shrunk balls after quitting steroids etc. etc.
- dr_kiszonka 5y ago
  I don't know about permanence, but some former steroid users suffer from prolonged hypogonadism, which causes testicular atrophy. 0. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23764075/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23764075/ 1. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161208 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

systemvoltage 5y ago

Deeply unpopular opinion here but I can attest to a few friends that sought help for Marijuana addiction. There is a whole community that's helping people get off of Marijuana: https://www.reddit.com/r/leaves/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leaves/ I am fine with legalization of many drugs but one has to watch out for excess and lack of moderation. And the stench, I smell Marijuana in my apartment complex and it has sort of ruined a beautiful courtyard. I wish it was not so potent and people really need to be courteous (same with Tobacco).

exolymph 5y ago
There is also /r/Petioles for people who want to moderate their usage :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Petioles/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Petioles/
gwbas1c 5y ago
What does that have to do with cocaine? They're different drugs, don't confuse the two.
- beenBoutIT 5y ago
  The "addiction" doesn't have anything to do with particular drugs, it's an underlying flaw that can be triggered by more or less anything that's enjoyable enough and meets a few other requirements. Sex, gambling, food, eating one's own hair, huffing glue, cutting oneself, and the list just goes on. Dependency on the other hand is a tangible scientifically provable phenomenon that can be cured in a matter of days for any drug. Cocaine dependency is no different from caffeine or nicotine dependency and is over after 3 days of abstinence.

dzhiurgis 5y ago

> low potential for adverse side effects Something like 5% get heart attacks from it. Imagine going to a bar and 2-3 people just dying that night, every night.

standardUser 5y ago
Are you suggesting that out of every 100 people who consume cocaine on a given night, 5 of them have a heart attack? Even DARE didn't lie that outrageously.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Or the the LD50 for doing coke is 20 times?
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    Source?
    - beenBoutIT 5y ago
      The heart attack stats are likely incorrect. An international WHO study on cocaine[0] concluded: "A majority of health consequences may not be directly attributed to cocaine use. Cocaine often contributes to or exacerbates the conditions reported, rather than causing them." "Few experts describe cocaine as invariably harmful to health. Cocaine-related problems are widely perceived to be more common and more severe for intensive, high-dosage users and very rare and much less severe for occasional, low-dosage users." 0. https://www.tni.org/files/article-downloads/200703081409275046.pdf https://www.tni.org/files/article-downloads/2007030814092750...
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  Ok, sorry. The stats is more like "cocaine causes 5% of all under 50 heart attacks" - https://www.healthline.com/health/cocaine-heart-attack#effects-on-the-heart https://www.healthline.com/health/cocaine-heart-attack#effec... While it's likely a trigger to pre-existing condition it's not really safe at all like many try to paint. Same goes to most drugs really - OD's are very easy to do once you are on a binge. I'm all in for recreational use, but these problems shouldn't be ignored. Keeping drugs illegal does not help, but having unmarked little baggies and candy all around little ones is very dangerous.

d0gsg0w00f 5y ago

I respectfully disagree that it should be legal. In my younger years I went through a month of hard use. It was awful. It makes you act completely out of character-more aggressive, less inhibitions when performing risky activities (e.g., speeding, theft, approaching members of the opposite sex), and you can actually do a lot of damage because, unlike alcohol, you are high functioning the whole time. I don't want to think about living in a society where that's legal.

sojournerc 5y ago
Respectfully, you learned that it's not for you, but do you think you deserved to go to jail for trying it? For me, everyone is entitled to make that decision, and if legal, a lot of the problems the black market creates go away, the largest of which is not imprisoning people for a victimless crime.
- d0gsg0w00f 5y ago
  So you're saying that we should just punish the eventual crime of theft, not the factor that contributed to the theft. I can support that argument. However, there's also the fact that the substance is basically a harmful addictive poison. We spend so much time building legislation that prevents harmful chemicals from being sold to consumers. We punish companies for selling legal opiates due the harm it causes consumers. Why would we push to legalize a harmful chemical?
cwkoss 5y ago
> It makes you act completely out of character-more aggressive, less inhibitions when performing risky activities (e.g., speeding, theft, approaching members of the opposite sex), and you can actually do a lot of damage because, unlike alcohol, you are high functioning the whole time. I find it interesting that all the symptoms you list also result from wealth. Maybe being a billionaire should be illegal too.

cwkoss 5y ago

Cocaine is a local anesthetic AND a vasoconstrictor. So some surgeons will rub it into a cut to stop both bleeding and pain. Sure seems like it would be handy to have in a first aid kit, if it weren't for that pesky euphoria!

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

Coke is one of the drugs I'd be fine with staying illegal.

gwbas1c 5y ago

Oh gosh, I've seen enough people use cocaine that I wouldn't call it a "mild" stimulant by any stretch of my imagination. It's basically a stronger form of caffeine. One friend of mine with severe ADHD turns completely normal on it. Everyone else that I've seen use it becomes an asshole. I'm pretty open minded about letting adults choose what they want to do with their bodies, but I don't like being around people using coke. Edit: If it wasn't for the cardiac issues, I'd wonder if it would make a better ADHD medicine.