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I yearn for the day where all drugs are legal. No difference between cocaine and caffeine or alcohol. They’re all drugs if you remove your bias and conditionin

I yearn for the day where all drugs are legal. No difference between cocaine and caffeine or alcohol. They’re all drugs if you remove your bias and conditioning.

throwaway5752 5y ago
Bias and conditioning? There is large and measurable variability in potency, effect, and dependency formation. Anyone with any sense sees the difference between coffee, marijuana, pcp, and heroin.
- dumpHero2 5y ago
  Ever heard of coffee destroying families or someone’s career? Yeah, me neither.
  - dom96 5y ago
    If that's the criteria then we still have an inconsistency: tobacco and alcohol should be banned. The alternative is to be consistent in the other direction (which to some that are after "freedom" sounds more appropriate).
    - whalesalad 5y ago
      Precisely. Anyone who stands up for alcohol while putting down cocaine or cannabis is fooling themselves and refusing to see truth.
    - ambrozk 5y ago
      Yeah, there's a logical inconsistency. So what? Just because our society has so far failed to ban two addictive, harmful drugs, does not mean we must legalize every other addictive, harmful drug.
      - shmel 5y ago
        I see it differently: despite alcohol having absolutely horrible safety profile the vast majority of people manage to use it responsibly and don't let it ruin their lives. We all know that some people become alcoholics and yet it stops virtually nobody from enjoying Friday beer. The drug prohibition made it difficult to know how many people use drugs responsibly. It is linked to legal weed actually: it is being legalized not because research showed it is not too dangerous (we knew it for a while), but because more and more people become aware that you can totally use weed and remain a respectable member of society. For me it is a question of personal freedom. Everything has risks. Going hiking in mountains can kill you, for example, or almost any outdoor activity really. And some people die there pretty much every day. But I really don't want the state banning it just because some people fuck up.
        ambrozk 5y ago
        To me, there is obviously a tension between the right of individuals to take calculated risks and the responsibility of the society to protect its members from harm. I don't think it's reasonable to say that individuals have an absolute right to take any risks they please, irrespective of the wishes of their society, because the society will end up bailing them out when the outcomes of their risky behavior get bad enough. Mountain-claimbing is actually a great example: if you get yourself caught in a ravine, there are crews of highly trained, well-equipped rangers who will fly in and spend enormous sums of money, as well as put their own lives in danger, to save your life. All this despite the fact that the risk was taken without consulting them at all. Because of this, mountain rangers have every right to mark certain dangerous trails closed to the public. It is a reasonable infringement on personal liberty, given that they're on the hook for other people's risky decisions.
  - batushka3 5y ago
    It does if you keep banging your barista
  - whalesalad 5y ago
    One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. Shouldn’t punish the entire world for a subset of people who are incapable of being responsible.
  - ihumanable 5y ago
    How about sugar? Sure it seems innocuous enough, but some people get effectively addicted to it, developing diseases and conditions that can prevent them from working their chosen profession or die and "destroy" their family unit. Have I heard about diabetics refusing to change their diets and dying, yes. Does that mean we should outlaw sugar? Probably not, plenty of people struggle with obesity and sugar is a major contributing factor, but there's plenty of responsible adults that can consume sugar in moderation. I also imagine there are a non-zero number of people that begin using more pure forms of caffeine in ways that are damaging to their relationships, health, and careers.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  I'm on three of those right now, two more to boot. It's the dose that makes the potency and effect. The dose available to the end-user is determined from the drug itself and the supply chain, since it is unregulated. If it were regulated, the individual doses would be more controlled, allowing for less habitual redosing, and less acute mental and physical dependency. Imagine you want a beer but hafta volumetrically dose it from 100% grain alcohol and cider. It'd be easier to become an alcoholic. Similarly, it is harder to "responsibility" enjoy heroin/fent or coke/meth because every time I want a small amount, I have to stare at a weeks worth for a brief moment. The illegality of drugs itself becomes tautologically entwined with the reasons they are illegal. It is becoming more difficult to diffuse as our culture leans to polarity on drug issues.
unethical_ban 5y ago
- Long term health risks (normal use as well as abuse) - Short term health risks (ease of overdose) - Level of addiction using those three metrics, there are some very large differences between cocaine, THC, tobacco, caffeine, alcohol, and say, heroin.
WillyF 5y ago
What about antibiotics?
dekerta 5y ago
No difference? Seriously? I have never heard of someone destroying their life over a coffee addiction
- nick__m 5y ago
  It is quite uncommon and usually doesn't devolves into a life destroying situation but it exist : The first published report of caffeinism — essentially an anxiety disorder based on chronic high caffeine consumption — appeared in 1967 and described the case of a woman thought to have an anxiety disorder until it was determined that she was consuming 15 to 18 cups of brewed coffee per day. She showed rapid improvement when her caffeine intake was drastically reduced. https://www.pharmacologicalsciences.us/caffeine/ccaffeinism.html https://www.pharmacologicalsciences.us/caffeine/ccaffeinism....
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    I will say that I didn't read the directions on some new freeze dried instant coffee I got and was accidentally brewing 2x the recommended concentration and felt like I was losing my mind for months until I figured it out.
    - ihumanable 5y ago
      I didn't start drinking coffee until well into my 20s, just never developed a taste for it. One day after I had started drinking coffee a friend wanted to go to Starbucks. They were excited that I finally started drinking coffee and we could go for a walk and grab a cup. I had heard Starbucks was pretty awful coffee but the coffee was a side point, so I went and got a cup of coffee. I was wildly caffeinated the rest of the day. My brain had made an incorrect association that "awful coffee" == "weak coffee" so I got the largest one because I was a bit tired. That was WAY TOO MUCH caffeine, a Venti coffee at Starbucks has 225mg of caffeine and the standard cup I was brewing at home / in the office was closer to 90mg. That was a difficult afternoon at work, unable to sit still, agitated, but I learned a good lesson. Starbucks didn't get rich from flavor, they did it the old fashioned way, massive quantities of addictive substances, caffeine and sugar.
kache_ 5y ago
Peak hackernews hot takes right here folks
seiferteric 5y ago
I want to agree but my area is rather "methy" and contributes so much to crime and bad behavior. In an ideal world people would be able to do whatever they want as long as they don't bother anyone else. Unfortunately it is a daily occurrence around here of meth addicts breaking into peoples yards and houses trying to steal stuff, aggressive behavior etc.
- pille 5y ago
  But meth is already illegal, and your neighborhood is still in that situation. That sounds awful, but not really like a reason for sticking with the current policy.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    In fact most of the crime around it would be a result of it being illegal. High prices, marginalisation etc. Not saying we should legalise meth as it seems to be one of the nastier drugs around. But the war on drugs does seem to create problems itself. By moving the drugs into the criminal zone you're creating a lot of crime around it. It's not the right way IMO. For example supplying unrecoverable addicts with seized drugs stops them from having to steal. It was a success in Europe. It's kinda ironic that this policy comes from the US which learned a valuable lesson during its prohibition period.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
They're all drugs, sure, no shit. But there definitely is a difference. Much like how there is a difference between antibiotics and NSAIDs.

I yearn for the day where all drugs are legal. No difference between cocaine and caffeine or alcohol. They’re all drugs if you remove your bias and conditioning.

throwaway5752 5y ago

Bias and conditioning? There is large and measurable variability in potency, effect, and dependency formation. Anyone with any sense sees the difference between coffee, marijuana, pcp, and heroin.

dumpHero2 5y ago
Ever heard of coffee destroying families or someone’s career? Yeah, me neither.
- dom96 5y ago
  If that's the criteria then we still have an inconsistency: tobacco and alcohol should be banned. The alternative is to be consistent in the other direction (which to some that are after "freedom" sounds more appropriate).
  - whalesalad 5y ago
    Precisely. Anyone who stands up for alcohol while putting down cocaine or cannabis is fooling themselves and refusing to see truth.
  - ambrozk 5y ago
    Yeah, there's a logical inconsistency. So what? Just because our society has so far failed to ban two addictive, harmful drugs, does not mean we must legalize every other addictive, harmful drug.
    - shmel 5y ago
      I see it differently: despite alcohol having absolutely horrible safety profile the vast majority of people manage to use it responsibly and don't let it ruin their lives. We all know that some people become alcoholics and yet it stops virtually nobody from enjoying Friday beer. The drug prohibition made it difficult to know how many people use drugs responsibly. It is linked to legal weed actually: it is being legalized not because research showed it is not too dangerous (we knew it for a while), but because more and more people become aware that you can totally use weed and remain a respectable member of society. For me it is a question of personal freedom. Everything has risks. Going hiking in mountains can kill you, for example, or almost any outdoor activity really. And some people die there pretty much every day. But I really don't want the state banning it just because some people fuck up.
      - ambrozk 5y ago
        To me, there is obviously a tension between the right of individuals to take calculated risks and the responsibility of the society to protect its members from harm. I don't think it's reasonable to say that individuals have an absolute right to take any risks they please, irrespective of the wishes of their society, because the society will end up bailing them out when the outcomes of their risky behavior get bad enough. Mountain-claimbing is actually a great example: if you get yourself caught in a ravine, there are crews of highly trained, well-equipped rangers who will fly in and spend enormous sums of money, as well as put their own lives in danger, to save your life. All this despite the fact that the risk was taken without consulting them at all. Because of this, mountain rangers have every right to mark certain dangerous trails closed to the public. It is a reasonable infringement on personal liberty, given that they're on the hook for other people's risky decisions.
- batushka3 5y ago
  It does if you keep banging your barista
- whalesalad 5y ago
  One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. Shouldn’t punish the entire world for a subset of people who are incapable of being responsible.
- ihumanable 5y ago
  How about sugar? Sure it seems innocuous enough, but some people get effectively addicted to it, developing diseases and conditions that can prevent them from working their chosen profession or die and "destroy" their family unit. Have I heard about diabetics refusing to change their diets and dying, yes. Does that mean we should outlaw sugar? Probably not, plenty of people struggle with obesity and sugar is a major contributing factor, but there's plenty of responsible adults that can consume sugar in moderation. I also imagine there are a non-zero number of people that begin using more pure forms of caffeine in ways that are damaging to their relationships, health, and careers.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Jerrrry 5y ago
I'm on three of those right now, two more to boot. It's the dose that makes the potency and effect. The dose available to the end-user is determined from the drug itself and the supply chain, since it is unregulated. If it were regulated, the individual doses would be more controlled, allowing for less habitual redosing, and less acute mental and physical dependency. Imagine you want a beer but hafta volumetrically dose it from 100% grain alcohol and cider. It'd be easier to become an alcoholic. Similarly, it is harder to "responsibility" enjoy heroin/fent or coke/meth because every time I want a small amount, I have to stare at a weeks worth for a brief moment. The illegality of drugs itself becomes tautologically entwined with the reasons they are illegal. It is becoming more difficult to diffuse as our culture leans to polarity on drug issues.

unethical_ban 5y ago

- Long term health risks (normal use as well as abuse) - Short term health risks (ease of overdose) - Level of addiction using those three metrics, there are some very large differences between cocaine, THC, tobacco, caffeine, alcohol, and say, heroin.

WillyF 5y ago

What about antibiotics?

dekerta 5y ago

No difference? Seriously? I have never heard of someone destroying their life over a coffee addiction

nick__m 5y ago
It is quite uncommon and usually doesn't devolves into a life destroying situation but it exist : The first published report of caffeinism — essentially an anxiety disorder based on chronic high caffeine consumption — appeared in 1967 and described the case of a woman thought to have an anxiety disorder until it was determined that she was consuming 15 to 18 cups of brewed coffee per day. She showed rapid improvement when her caffeine intake was drastically reduced. https://www.pharmacologicalsciences.us/caffeine/ccaffeinism.html https://www.pharmacologicalsciences.us/caffeine/ccaffeinism....
- tehjoker 5y ago
  I will say that I didn't read the directions on some new freeze dried instant coffee I got and was accidentally brewing 2x the recommended concentration and felt like I was losing my mind for months until I figured it out.
  - ihumanable 5y ago
    I didn't start drinking coffee until well into my 20s, just never developed a taste for it. One day after I had started drinking coffee a friend wanted to go to Starbucks. They were excited that I finally started drinking coffee and we could go for a walk and grab a cup. I had heard Starbucks was pretty awful coffee but the coffee was a side point, so I went and got a cup of coffee. I was wildly caffeinated the rest of the day. My brain had made an incorrect association that "awful coffee" == "weak coffee" so I got the largest one because I was a bit tired. That was WAY TOO MUCH caffeine, a Venti coffee at Starbucks has 225mg of caffeine and the standard cup I was brewing at home / in the office was closer to 90mg. That was a difficult afternoon at work, unable to sit still, agitated, but I learned a good lesson. Starbucks didn't get rich from flavor, they did it the old fashioned way, massive quantities of addictive substances, caffeine and sugar.

kache_ 5y ago

Peak hackernews hot takes right here folks

seiferteric 5y ago

I want to agree but my area is rather "methy" and contributes so much to crime and bad behavior. In an ideal world people would be able to do whatever they want as long as they don't bother anyone else. Unfortunately it is a daily occurrence around here of meth addicts breaking into peoples yards and houses trying to steal stuff, aggressive behavior etc.

pille 5y ago
But meth is already illegal, and your neighborhood is still in that situation. That sounds awful, but not really like a reason for sticking with the current policy.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  In fact most of the crime around it would be a result of it being illegal. High prices, marginalisation etc. Not saying we should legalise meth as it seems to be one of the nastier drugs around. But the war on drugs does seem to create problems itself. By moving the drugs into the criminal zone you're creating a lot of crime around it. It's not the right way IMO. For example supplying unrecoverable addicts with seized drugs stops them from having to steal. It was a success in Europe. It's kinda ironic that this policy comes from the US which learned a valuable lesson during its prohibition period.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

They're all drugs, sure, no shit. But there definitely is a difference. Much like how there is a difference between antibiotics and NSAIDs.