5 ms·

What’s the beef with alcohol? Some people like to get fucked up, it’s irritating when I encounter opinions that shame it or otherwise imply that it needs to be

What’s the beef with alcohol? Some people like to get fucked up, it’s irritating when I encounter opinions that shame it or otherwise imply that it needs to be stopped. Let those who want it have it.

5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
I like alcohol despite all its flaws, but it's hard to argue that it's doing an immense amount of damage even to those who don't drink it at all.
- dkdk8283 5y ago
  Behavior shouldn’t be projected on others. If someone in your life is negatively affecting you consider changing who’s in your life. We are only responsible for ourselves.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    Except children are a thing, and they both can't easily change who's in their lives and their parents are also responsible for them.
    - dkdk8283 5y ago
      I can’t take that argument seriously. “Think of the children” is a dead horse. Parents can also abuse emotions, marijuana, etc. Haven’t seen anyone advocating to curb marijuana here yet.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - jeromegv 5y ago
        The fact that you can’t understand the argument that alcohol and drug abuse can have serious impact on children means that you have serious blind spots in your life.
        dkdk8283 5y ago
        I choose not to, as I don’t believe it makes sense.
      - Sebb767 5y ago
        > Haven’t seen anyone advocating to curb marijuana here yet. You don't think a drug that's illegal in large parts of the world and for which legalization is a highly controversial topic is curbed? Also, the parent comment clearly took children as an example of people who's live can be drastically worsened by someone else consuming alcohol. Drivers and and passerbys endangered by drunk drivers would be another good example.
  - OneTimePetes 5y ago
    Atomized Individuals Propaganda without any love or attachment to others. I know its the state/corpos wish that we are all interchangeable people-toner easy to pack into cartridges, easy to produce, easy to consume, but some of us cling to the old ways and others. Sorry. Clingy, sticky, nasty, humans. The new man, you want to go towards will surely not have this flaws. What a marvellous ideal sociopath that will be.
  - xnx 5y ago
    Drunk driving kills 10k/year in the US.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    > We are only responsible for ourselves. Not when your actions have consequences, which they do. Violence following alcohol abuse, or loss of family members due to alcohol abuse, is a thing.
  - fullstop 5y ago
    > If someone in your life is negatively affecting you consider changing who’s in your life. Great idea! Now how do I get drunk people off of the roads?
darkwater 5y ago
But it's the same with cocaine and almost any other drug. Alcohol IS a drug by all means. I agree with you that if someone wants to be fucked up and enjoy themselves, obviously not harming any other individual in the process (driving, getting into a fight etc), they should be free to do it. There should be a full disclosure of what long-term effects can be and regulated enough to avoid scams and shady marketing strategies but beside that...
boomboomsubban 5y ago
>Let those who want it have it. And then heavily advertise it to those who don't. I'm not in favor of a return to prohibition, but it's strange how massive alcohol advertising is.
- dkdk8283 5y ago
  I ignore advertising I don’t agree with, just like I ignore opinionated news I disagree with. I’d still fight for both to exist regardless of my beliefs.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    I wouldn't fight for any advertising to exist - I want it all gone.
thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
It's not a new beef, Islam is over 1000 years old.
watwut 5y ago
There is ultra puritanic abstitential strain on HN. Not a sarcasm, last week there was a person fully seriously that alcohol is as addictive as heroin. I am not exaggerating and it did not seemed as wink wink trolling either.
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  teatotalism is one of those horseshoe topics. Always has been.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  I would say given the age range on here (informally feels like majority ~35-45) there are also probably a lot of reformed alcoholics on HN. I wouldn’t say it’s as addictive as heroin, but is more dangerous in some ways (heroin withdrawal sucks but won’t kill you; alcohol withdrawal will.) Personally, alcohol is related to some traumatic experiences so I don’t like feeling remotely drunk. I definitely had a problem when I quit.
- michaelt 5y ago
  From a European perspective, America has a strange attitude to drinking, not just HN. On one hand, America has counties where you can't buy alcohol at all, laws banning 20-year-old adults from buying alcohol, planning laws keeping pubs away from where people live, and even had a national alcohol ban at one time. On the other hand, apparently the age laws are widely flouted? And everyone knows it but turns a blind eye? And drink-driving is so common that even if you kill someone, it's barely punished?
  - watwut 5y ago
    > On the other hand, apparently the age laws are widely flouted? And everyone knows it but turns a blind eye? And drink-driving is so common that even if you kill someone, it's barely punished? In my experience, it perfectly describes Europe too. Maybe not drink-driving being common in all countries, but age laws being ignored is something I find normal. If anything, in USA they make much much bigger deal over age laws then in Europe.
losvedir 5y ago
It's about the same magnitude of an issue as with guns, I think. In both cases you have the vast majority of people responsibly partaking, but you can't deny that their presence makes some things much worse. I think the dynamics and beliefs are similar between the two: your primary exposure to alcohol could be having fun with it and friends, or it could be from growing up in an alcoholic family. You could grow up thinking guns are just a normal, if somewhat dangerous, tool (like a lawnmower), or most exposure could come from salacious gun news stories. It will all color how you feel about the topics. (stats from memory, but I think order of magnitude correct). 30k gun deaths a year, of which 20k are suicide. Self-inflicted death from alcohol dwarfs 20k, and deaths to others from, e.g., drunk driving are comparable to gun homicides. Then you have the splashy things like school shootings, which I think are roughly comparable to driving a car through a Christmas parade while intoxicated.
29athrowaway 5y ago
During prohibition, there were companies that sold "wine bricks", or concentrated grape juice bricks. They came with a warning that read: "Do NOT dissolve and leave on a cool cupboard for 21 days or it would turn it into wine". It would be impossible to outlaw alcohol today. You can make alcohol out of anything.

5e92cb50239222b 5y ago

I like alcohol despite all its flaws, but it's hard to argue that it's doing an immense amount of damage even to those who don't drink it at all.

dkdk8283 5y ago
Behavior shouldn’t be projected on others. If someone in your life is negatively affecting you consider changing who’s in your life. We are only responsible for ourselves.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  Except children are a thing, and they both can't easily change who's in their lives and their parents are also responsible for them.
  - dkdk8283 5y ago
    I can’t take that argument seriously. “Think of the children” is a dead horse. Parents can also abuse emotions, marijuana, etc. Haven’t seen anyone advocating to curb marijuana here yet.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jeromegv 5y ago
      The fact that you can’t understand the argument that alcohol and drug abuse can have serious impact on children means that you have serious blind spots in your life.
      - dkdk8283 5y ago
        I choose not to, as I don’t believe it makes sense.
    - Sebb767 5y ago
      > Haven’t seen anyone advocating to curb marijuana here yet. You don't think a drug that's illegal in large parts of the world and for which legalization is a highly controversial topic is curbed? Also, the parent comment clearly took children as an example of people who's live can be drastically worsened by someone else consuming alcohol. Drivers and and passerbys endangered by drunk drivers would be another good example.
- OneTimePetes 5y ago
  Atomized Individuals Propaganda without any love or attachment to others. I know its the state/corpos wish that we are all interchangeable people-toner easy to pack into cartridges, easy to produce, easy to consume, but some of us cling to the old ways and others. Sorry. Clingy, sticky, nasty, humans. The new man, you want to go towards will surely not have this flaws. What a marvellous ideal sociopath that will be.
- xnx 5y ago
  Drunk driving kills 10k/year in the US.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  > We are only responsible for ourselves. Not when your actions have consequences, which they do. Violence following alcohol abuse, or loss of family members due to alcohol abuse, is a thing.
- fullstop 5y ago
  > If someone in your life is negatively affecting you consider changing who’s in your life. Great idea! Now how do I get drunk people off of the roads?

darkwater 5y ago

But it's the same with cocaine and almost any other drug. Alcohol IS a drug by all means. I agree with you that if someone wants to be fucked up and enjoy themselves, obviously not harming any other individual in the process (driving, getting into a fight etc), they should be free to do it. There should be a full disclosure of what long-term effects can be and regulated enough to avoid scams and shady marketing strategies but beside that...

boomboomsubban 5y ago

>Let those who want it have it. And then heavily advertise it to those who don't. I'm not in favor of a return to prohibition, but it's strange how massive alcohol advertising is.

dkdk8283 5y ago
I ignore advertising I don’t agree with, just like I ignore opinionated news I disagree with. I’d still fight for both to exist regardless of my beliefs.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  I wouldn't fight for any advertising to exist - I want it all gone.

thrwyoilarticle 5y ago

It's not a new beef, Islam is over 1000 years old.

watwut 5y ago

There is ultra puritanic abstitential strain on HN. Not a sarcasm, last week there was a person fully seriously that alcohol is as addictive as heroin. I am not exaggerating and it did not seemed as wink wink trolling either.

hprotagonist 5y ago
teatotalism is one of those horseshoe topics. Always has been.
wayoutthere 5y ago
I would say given the age range on here (informally feels like majority ~35-45) there are also probably a lot of reformed alcoholics on HN. I wouldn’t say it’s as addictive as heroin, but is more dangerous in some ways (heroin withdrawal sucks but won’t kill you; alcohol withdrawal will.) Personally, alcohol is related to some traumatic experiences so I don’t like feeling remotely drunk. I definitely had a problem when I quit.
michaelt 5y ago
From a European perspective, America has a strange attitude to drinking, not just HN. On one hand, America has counties where you can't buy alcohol at all, laws banning 20-year-old adults from buying alcohol, planning laws keeping pubs away from where people live, and even had a national alcohol ban at one time. On the other hand, apparently the age laws are widely flouted? And everyone knows it but turns a blind eye? And drink-driving is so common that even if you kill someone, it's barely punished?
- watwut 5y ago
  > On the other hand, apparently the age laws are widely flouted? And everyone knows it but turns a blind eye? And drink-driving is so common that even if you kill someone, it's barely punished? In my experience, it perfectly describes Europe too. Maybe not drink-driving being common in all countries, but age laws being ignored is something I find normal. If anything, in USA they make much much bigger deal over age laws then in Europe.

losvedir 5y ago

It's about the same magnitude of an issue as with guns, I think. In both cases you have the vast majority of people responsibly partaking, but you can't deny that their presence makes some things much worse. I think the dynamics and beliefs are similar between the two: your primary exposure to alcohol could be having fun with it and friends, or it could be from growing up in an alcoholic family. You could grow up thinking guns are just a normal, if somewhat dangerous, tool (like a lawnmower), or most exposure could come from salacious gun news stories. It will all color how you feel about the topics. (stats from memory, but I think order of magnitude correct). 30k gun deaths a year, of which 20k are suicide. Self-inflicted death from alcohol dwarfs 20k, and deaths to others from, e.g., drunk driving are comparable to gun homicides. Then you have the splashy things like school shootings, which I think are roughly comparable to driving a car through a Christmas parade while intoxicated.

29athrowaway 5y ago

During prohibition, there were companies that sold "wine bricks", or concentrated grape juice bricks. They came with a warning that read: "Do NOT dissolve and leave on a cool cupboard for 21 days or it would turn it into wine". It would be impossible to outlaw alcohol today. You can make alcohol out of anything.