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I’m feed up with feedback. It’s probably because I have worked in companies with regular 360 and performance reviews. It has somehow numbed me down to the poin

I’m feed up with feedback. It’s probably because I have worked in companies with regular 360 and performance reviews. It has somehow numbed me down to the point that I think: why should I care? What’s the thing with this obsession to become better and better all the f-ing time?

specialist 5y ago
aka Stalinism. Or maybe organizational kabuki. Or a mass game of Prisoner's Dilemma in the form of "Guess what I'm thinking?" These attempts at introspection somehow weaponize feedback into another tool of dominance and oppression. Woe be to the persons of good faith who speak honestly.
redis_mlc 5y ago
As somebody who works in Operations (Production Engineering), mostly I've found OKRs, etc. a distraction from the daily marathon of high-priority availability and reliability issues. I'm genuinely interested in your opinion on the pluses and minuses of "regular 360 and performance reviews"?
verve_rat 5y ago
The best bit is when the feedback and implied improvements are completely decoupled from pay rises and promotions. But actually though, why _should_ I give a shit. Just leave me alone for a while, it'll be fine.
atoav 5y ago
Feedback is totally obsolete if you don't get the people on board who are meant to receive it. If there is e.g. someone in your team that feels they are doing you a favour, giving them casual negative feedback is a very weird thing to do. The won't be able to receive it, because they already believe they are better than you deserve. If you don't provide the time or resources (room, tools, education, ...) for your people to do their work properly negative feedback can be down right destructive. Because they will rightfully say to themselves: "Why on earth should I try to do a better job if my boss isn't willing to create an environment that makes it possible?" Another good one is when your manager is the person creating all the chaos and they end up giving you negative feedback on something they caused, because they didn't follow the usual procedure because $importantcustomer stressed them out so much they went directly to the shelve and took $inventarizedproduct without using the inventary system, which them makes shipping a custom job, which then makes returning the item a custom job, which then makes shelving the item back a custom job — a custom job all shifts have to know. Then there is good feedback. It is when a manager provides you all the resources, makes sure you and them have the same goals, they understand what you are doing and they provide feedback that helps you to get better at the things you care about.
refurb 5y ago
Agreed. It's now just a box to check and then is quickly forgotten. My company skipped year-end self-reviews twice now and the impact has been...nothing? The challenge I see with feedback is it's team and situation dependent. Have a manager who is an "idea person" and they'll tell their reports to "stop getting mired in details". Then those same people work on the same thing with someone who is methodical and organized and that area for development quickly becomes a "strength". Those reports end up just chasing their tail for an ideal that doesn't exist. Far better to: 1) address work issues early, 2) be flexible in how to fix them [it's not just them, might be you!], 3) accept that some people might not just be a good fit for this particular project with this particular team. The absolutely best feedback I've gotten is from a boss who was new and terrible. Everyone else criticized her a the lunch table, but when she asked me at a 1-on-1 what feedback I had, I gave her 3 specific areas that were driving me nuts. From that point on the bullshit curtain dropped. If she did something that annoyed me, I told her. She did the same. I guess that's what the "psychological safe space" flavor-of-the-month is now.
- crispyambulance 5y ago
  > My company skipped year-end self-reviews twice now and the impact has been...nothing? I wish this caught on more. Unfortunately, it's all tied up in what HR departments use to justify their existence. I wish that HR execs just f-ing read them and realized it's a huge waste of time and the vast majority of these reviews are people just going through the motions and writing down whatever they can come up with in 20 minutes.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Agreed. It becomes a checkbox exercise for HR - “we developed a performance review process”. The further along I get in my career the more I realize it doesn’t really matter. Do what you think is right. Take feedback but don’t treat it too seriously unless it impacts team performance. If I take a step back it seems to me most companies are a thousand monkeys banging at a thousand typewriters. If you can produce something from that chaos, that’s what matters, not some HR form.
nicbou 5y ago
I don't mind constant improvement, but not for the sole purpose of being a better asset for my employer.
vanusa 5y ago
What’s the thing with this obsession to become better and better all the f-ing time? It's just management's way of saying: we're the adults here (with unquestioned 360 perspective on all matters of "performance" and "team fit"), you mere employees are the children permanently in need of our guidance and approval, etc. etc. That, and of course legal CYA when it comes to firing people.

specialist 5y ago

aka Stalinism. Or maybe organizational kabuki. Or a mass game of Prisoner's Dilemma in the form of "Guess what I'm thinking?" These attempts at introspection somehow weaponize feedback into another tool of dominance and oppression. Woe be to the persons of good faith who speak honestly.

redis_mlc 5y ago

As somebody who works in Operations (Production Engineering), mostly I've found OKRs, etc. a distraction from the daily marathon of high-priority availability and reliability issues. I'm genuinely interested in your opinion on the pluses and minuses of "regular 360 and performance reviews"?

verve_rat 5y ago

The best bit is when the feedback and implied improvements are completely decoupled from pay rises and promotions. But actually though, why _should_ I give a shit. Just leave me alone for a while, it'll be fine.

atoav 5y ago

Feedback is totally obsolete if you don't get the people on board who are meant to receive it. If there is e.g. someone in your team that feels they are doing you a favour, giving them casual negative feedback is a very weird thing to do. The won't be able to receive it, because they already believe they are better than you deserve. If you don't provide the time or resources (room, tools, education, ...) for your people to do their work properly negative feedback can be down right destructive. Because they will rightfully say to themselves: "Why on earth should I try to do a better job if my boss isn't willing to create an environment that makes it possible?" Another good one is when your manager is the person creating all the chaos and they end up giving you negative feedback on something they caused, because they didn't follow the usual procedure because $importantcustomer stressed them out so much they went directly to the shelve and took $inventarizedproduct without using the inventary system, which them makes shipping a custom job, which then makes returning the item a custom job, which then makes shelving the item back a custom job — a custom job all shifts have to know. Then there is good feedback. It is when a manager provides you all the resources, makes sure you and them have the same goals, they understand what you are doing and they provide feedback that helps you to get better at the things you care about.

refurb 5y ago

Agreed. It's now just a box to check and then is quickly forgotten. My company skipped year-end self-reviews twice now and the impact has been...nothing? The challenge I see with feedback is it's team and situation dependent. Have a manager who is an "idea person" and they'll tell their reports to "stop getting mired in details". Then those same people work on the same thing with someone who is methodical and organized and that area for development quickly becomes a "strength". Those reports end up just chasing their tail for an ideal that doesn't exist. Far better to: 1) address work issues early, 2) be flexible in how to fix them [it's not just them, might be you!], 3) accept that some people might not just be a good fit for this particular project with this particular team. The absolutely best feedback I've gotten is from a boss who was new and terrible. Everyone else criticized her a the lunch table, but when she asked me at a 1-on-1 what feedback I had, I gave her 3 specific areas that were driving me nuts. From that point on the bullshit curtain dropped. If she did something that annoyed me, I told her. She did the same. I guess that's what the "psychological safe space" flavor-of-the-month is now.

crispyambulance 5y ago
> My company skipped year-end self-reviews twice now and the impact has been...nothing? I wish this caught on more. Unfortunately, it's all tied up in what HR departments use to justify their existence. I wish that HR execs just f-ing read them and realized it's a huge waste of time and the vast majority of these reviews are people just going through the motions and writing down whatever they can come up with in 20 minutes.
- refurb 5y ago
  Agreed. It becomes a checkbox exercise for HR - “we developed a performance review process”. The further along I get in my career the more I realize it doesn’t really matter. Do what you think is right. Take feedback but don’t treat it too seriously unless it impacts team performance. If I take a step back it seems to me most companies are a thousand monkeys banging at a thousand typewriters. If you can produce something from that chaos, that’s what matters, not some HR form.

nicbou 5y ago

I don't mind constant improvement, but not for the sole purpose of being a better asset for my employer.

vanusa 5y ago

What’s the thing with this obsession to become better and better all the f-ing time? It's just management's way of saying: we're the adults here (with unquestioned 360 perspective on all matters of "performance" and "team fit"), you mere employees are the children permanently in need of our guidance and approval, etc. etc. That, and of course legal CYA when it comes to firing people.