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What dictates your ability to learn if it's not genetics? I suppose if you believe in a higher power that might work.

oh_sigh 5y ago
Perhaps the point is most people are limited by unfulfilled potential - not that they've reached their genetic max. I do t think anyone would argue that a really nurtured lettuce plant would ever match ability to learn with a slightly neglected human.
sp332 5y ago
Parents' income level https://phys.org/news/2014-02-parental-income-strong-predictor-student.html https://phys.org/news/2014-02-parental-income-strong-predict... Organizational skills https://www.jstor.org/stable/23887095 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23887095 Class size http://www.classsizematters.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/200030311.pdf http://www.classsizematters.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2... (PDF) Home environment https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09737189.2009.11885270 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09737189.2009.11...
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  Three of those are genetically inluenced. The better your educational sysyem is at imparting non-cognitive skills and at removing children from abusive and unsafe environments the more the generits will matter for the same reason genetics mattered more for height in 1900s US than UK, saturation of inputs. As for the one that is in no way genetic > Small class size has at best a small effect on academic achievement, and may harm some students > Reducing class size is seen as a way of improving student performance. But larger class sizes help control education budgets. The evidence suggests at best a small effect on reading achievement. There is a negative, but statistically insignificant, effect on mathematics, so it cannot be ruled out that some children may be adversely affected. https://www.campbellcollaboration.org/better-evidence/small-class-sizes-student-achievement-primary-and-secondary-schools.html https://www.campbellcollaboration.org/better-evidence/small-...
TheBigSalad 5y ago
I was about to say "who the hell would say that?" But here you are.
thewakalix 5y ago
"All disagreement with me is based on religion" is not a particularly good argument.
jvanderbot 5y ago
it's possible that factors other than minor genetic differences dominate genetic contributions. It's really disingenuous to pretend that's not possible. I'm adopted, and I have a level of achievement much more similar to my adopted parents than my birth parents.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  > The high heritability of educational achievement reflects many genetically influenced traits, not just intelligence > Because educational achievement at the end of compulsory schooling represents a major tipping point in life, understanding its causes and correlates is important for individual children, their families, and society. Here we identify the general ingredients of educational achievement using a multivariate design that goes beyond intelligence to consider a wide range of predictors, such as self-efficacy, personality, and behavior problems, to assess their independent and joint contributions to educational achievement. We use a genetically sensitive design to address the question of why educational achievement is so highly heritable. We focus on the results of a United Kingdom-wide examination, the General Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE), which is administered at the end of compulsory education at age 16. GCSE scores were obtained for 13,306 twins at age 16, whom we also assessed contemporaneously on 83 scales that were condensed to nine broad psychological domains, including intelligence, self-efficacy, personality, well-being, and behavior problems. The mean of GCSE core subjects (English, mathematics, science) is more heritable (62%) than the nine predictor domains (35–58%). Each of the domains correlates significantly with GCSE results, and these correlations are largely mediated genetically. The main finding is that, although intelligence accounts for more of the heritability of GCSE than any other single domain, the other domains collectively account for about as much GCSE heritability as intelligence. Together with intelligence, these domains account for 75% of the heritability of GCSE. We conclude that the high heritability of educational achievement reflects many genetically influenced traits, not just intelligence. https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/42/15273.full.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/42/15273.full.pdf

Perhaps the point is most people are limited by unfulfilled potential - not that they've reached their genetic max. I do t think anyone would argue that a really nurtured lettuce plant would ever match ability to learn with a slightly neglected human.

sp332 5y ago

Parents' income level https://phys.org/news/2014-02-parental-income-strong-predictor-student.html https://phys.org/news/2014-02-parental-income-strong-predict... Organizational skills https://www.jstor.org/stable/23887095 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23887095 Class size http://www.classsizematters.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/200030311.pdf http://www.classsizematters.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2... (PDF) Home environment https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09737189.2009.11885270 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09737189.2009.11...

barry-cotter 5y ago
Three of those are genetically inluenced. The better your educational sysyem is at imparting non-cognitive skills and at removing children from abusive and unsafe environments the more the generits will matter for the same reason genetics mattered more for height in 1900s US than UK, saturation of inputs. As for the one that is in no way genetic > Small class size has at best a small effect on academic achievement, and may harm some students > Reducing class size is seen as a way of improving student performance. But larger class sizes help control education budgets. The evidence suggests at best a small effect on reading achievement. There is a negative, but statistically insignificant, effect on mathematics, so it cannot be ruled out that some children may be adversely affected. https://www.campbellcollaboration.org/better-evidence/small-class-sizes-student-achievement-primary-and-secondary-schools.html https://www.campbellcollaboration.org/better-evidence/small-...

TheBigSalad 5y ago

I was about to say "who the hell would say that?" But here you are.

thewakalix 5y ago

"All disagreement with me is based on religion" is not a particularly good argument.

jvanderbot 5y ago

it's possible that factors other than minor genetic differences dominate genetic contributions. It's really disingenuous to pretend that's not possible. I'm adopted, and I have a level of achievement much more similar to my adopted parents than my birth parents.

barry-cotter 5y ago
> The high heritability of educational achievement reflects many genetically influenced traits, not just intelligence > Because educational achievement at the end of compulsory schooling represents a major tipping point in life, understanding its causes and correlates is important for individual children, their families, and society. Here we identify the general ingredients of educational achievement using a multivariate design that goes beyond intelligence to consider a wide range of predictors, such as self-efficacy, personality, and behavior problems, to assess their independent and joint contributions to educational achievement. We use a genetically sensitive design to address the question of why educational achievement is so highly heritable. We focus on the results of a United Kingdom-wide examination, the General Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE), which is administered at the end of compulsory education at age 16. GCSE scores were obtained for 13,306 twins at age 16, whom we also assessed contemporaneously on 83 scales that were condensed to nine broad psychological domains, including intelligence, self-efficacy, personality, well-being, and behavior problems. The mean of GCSE core subjects (English, mathematics, science) is more heritable (62%) than the nine predictor domains (35–58%). Each of the domains correlates significantly with GCSE results, and these correlations are largely mediated genetically. The main finding is that, although intelligence accounts for more of the heritability of GCSE than any other single domain, the other domains collectively account for about as much GCSE heritability as intelligence. Together with intelligence, these domains account for 75% of the heritability of GCSE. We conclude that the high heritability of educational achievement reflects many genetically influenced traits, not just intelligence. https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/42/15273.full.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/42/15273.full.pdf