5 ms·

Bracing myself for the downvotes but meh, let's live life dangerously. WordPress. Why? Incredibly easy to dev against. Powerful API built in. User model. Flex

by dmje 5y ago

Bracing myself for the downvotes but meh, let's live life dangerously. WordPress. Why? Incredibly easy to dev against. Powerful API built in. User model. Flexible theming. Plugins for extensibility. Multisite for more complex apps. I've built a few web apps in house using it and am now making a couple for production use. I might one day find I need to get this made bespoke but I can't see a requirement any day soon. WP does everything I need.

immnn 5y ago
+1 on WordPress WP is a full blown CMS. It’s very versatile and you can achieve a lot with just the core. Additionally the Gutenberg Editor is the definitive editor for building content-pages. A few month ago I tried to find a CMS as feature-complete as WP. However, I wasn’t able to find any good alternatives. I also asked on another forum and summed up my favorite WP features: - Extendable admin area - Custom post types - Single- and archive-pages/-routes - Taxonomy aka categories and tags - Dynamic meta data (especially with ACF) - Solid page editor for content - Action-/Filter-capabilities - Shortcodes - Open Source - Very compatible upgrade philosophy - Media Library including automatic image scaling - User Login - API Support with custom routes However, you need to know, that WP is higher settled than frameworks like Laravel. Especially data-management gets tedious on bigger instances. Just have a look at the DB schema and you will see, what I mean. On our company we solved this issue by integrating Illuminate/Database btw.
- honopu 5y ago
  I haven’t used it in years but concrete5 was awesome for this.
  - whylo 5y ago
    Yeah, I keep coming back to Concrete5 (now Concrete CMS). We don't often do CMS-based projects but when we do I test out all the big names and Concrete wins out every time. It had a block-based page editor years before Wordpress introduced Gutenberg and theming has always been pretty straightforward.
kpennell 5y ago
Agreed. You can build a lot of scratch, sure. But WP + something like Avada or another templatey thing, and you can cover most brochure ware sites super easily.
yblu 5y ago
Thanks. How easy is it to add a custom page that retrieves data via REST? Does it have to be written in PHP and as a Wordpress plugin?
- dmje 5y ago
  If I've understood correctly, you'd make a new page template and make your new page use that. Then you can code this page up however you like. PHP, js, etc. The functions / classes you use could be in a plugin for portability, or just on the page or in your functions.php file for ease, whatever you like. The nice thing about building like this for me is that the journey from nothing to something is short and so much is supported out of the box.
  - yblu 5y ago
    > The nice thing about building like this for me is that the journey from nothing to something is short and so much is supported out of the box. This sounds really tempting :). Thanks!
snowwrestler 5y ago
Can you give some examples of great web apps built on Wordpress? It’s a full-featured CMS as another commenter details, but to me a content website is not really what I think of when I hear “web app.”
- codyogden 5y ago
  Depends on what you’re doing with it. WordPress core is built to be highly customizable. I’ve built multiple projects that staple JS/React apps on top of the core WordPress Dashboard experience. It typically meant disabling the default post/page content editing and using WordPress in a headless fashion. The biggest business chore is usually around user management, roles, permissions—all easily expanded/modified through WP’s extremely well-documented core framework APIs. Custom REST API endpoints are a breeze to implement with or without authentication requirements. If you need external deps, you can manage them like any other modern php project with composer. Deploying is easy with docker and uploads sent off to some S3-like bucket. One recent project I built had WordPress driving fully custom content for a set of giant LED screens in a corporate HQ lobby that allowed users to build presentations, manage a recurring and one-off scheduling, build, edit, and manage reusable content, view live video feeds of what’s currently on the screens, and request static image and video preview renders from an on-prem media server. Users authenticate via the typical WP dashboard experience, but have rich web app features presented to them for their tasks using the WordPress custom REST API endpoints and the existing WP data model behind the scenes (for the most part). Any business needs they presented were easily absorbed by WordPress through straightforward customizations. IMO, WP is an underrated contender in building CRUD-ware.
  - dmje 5y ago
    Yeh, my method is a bit different but only because I’m less knowledgeable about js / headless approaches. I tend to make the front end (what in a traditional site would be just “the website”) into the admin dashboard. So - a normal user never gets to see wp-admin at all. By using custom post types, ACF forms and user permissions you can get most stuff done pretty easily. One of the things I’ve done quite a lot is to use Wordpress multi site for building apps. Then each new client has their own site. If you use mu plugins you can trigger a new site creation to make all the pages you need, and configure / populate them. It’s a really compelling way of making apps, IMO
sputr 5y ago
I just wonder: have you ever developed anything in a proper framework like laravel or Symfony? I ask because not long ago what you write was true - but only if you've not seen how 'it can be' in modern stacks. WordPress is (was) great for a time that is (was) gone. I'm saying was because I have not worked with WP in a while so I can't really judge.
- dmje 5y ago
  I’ve played with laravel, and yeh, I can see it’s really compelling. But my personal use case is that we’re a tiny WP agency, so that’s where all our skills are. I’ve got a head full of ideas for apps, and the least friction to get to prototype (and production!) is using what we know. I’ve been really surprised at how much WP gives us out of the box.
  - sputr 5y ago
    Yeah, I get that. "Use what you know" does beat most things. That's why I was asking - for someone who does not have your experience starting WP today, in my opinion, would be a mistake. If you're a "proper" developer, there are much easier, less painful, ways of making money (and making websites) than using WP. But that said, it's amazing to see what a proper developer with a lot of experience with WP ecosystem (which I'm guessing you are) can churn out in the website game.
    - dmje 5y ago
      Yeh, I agree. There are some nasty little WP pitfalls which can totally bite you on the ass if you're not used to it as an environment. I guess I'd also like to chew into what "a website" is. I mean - I still maintain that for basically all "normal" content-rich websites you'd be hard pushed to find a better solution than WordPress. It's not just the rich plugin/theme/development ecosystem* but the fact that editing is so, so simple that makes this the case - so although many modern solutions for delivering websites focus lots on the front end, actually (in my sector / experience - working with very content rich, complex sites), it's "a nice editing experience" that is critical too. At "transactional" level - ie as your "web thing" is less about pure content and more about "something app-like" then it becomes a different sort of problem. Saving state and logins and so on is absolutely in WP's space in theory, but you definitely run the risk of entering an arena where you're making it do things it really shouldn't be doing, and that can get really gnarly really quickly. But - having said that (and back to the thread) - I've been pleasantly surprised that using WP as an actual (simple!) web app framework brings lots to the table, and not many people have thought about it in this way. [* this is also a downside. We do "proper" WordPress development - fully bespoke "from scratch" themes, proper deployments etc - but many, many people just throw up a Divi site with 80 plugins and say they're a WordPress developer...]
quickthrower2 5y ago
Yes it is pleasantly surprising what you can create purely with themes and plugins. No code. Also surprising how much power you get from one of those cheap shared hosts like Hostgator.

by dmje 5y ago

immnn 5y ago

+1 on WordPress WP is a full blown CMS. It’s very versatile and you can achieve a lot with just the core. Additionally the Gutenberg Editor is the definitive editor for building content-pages. A few month ago I tried to find a CMS as feature-complete as WP. However, I wasn’t able to find any good alternatives. I also asked on another forum and summed up my favorite WP features: - Extendable admin area - Custom post types - Single- and archive-pages/-routes - Taxonomy aka categories and tags - Dynamic meta data (especially with ACF) - Solid page editor for content - Action-/Filter-capabilities - Shortcodes - Open Source - Very compatible upgrade philosophy - Media Library including automatic image scaling - User Login - API Support with custom routes However, you need to know, that WP is higher settled than frameworks like Laravel. Especially data-management gets tedious on bigger instances. Just have a look at the DB schema and you will see, what I mean. On our company we solved this issue by integrating Illuminate/Database btw.

honopu 5y ago
I haven’t used it in years but concrete5 was awesome for this.
- whylo 5y ago
  Yeah, I keep coming back to Concrete5 (now Concrete CMS). We don't often do CMS-based projects but when we do I test out all the big names and Concrete wins out every time. It had a block-based page editor years before Wordpress introduced Gutenberg and theming has always been pretty straightforward.

kpennell 5y ago

Agreed. You can build a lot of scratch, sure. But WP + something like Avada or another templatey thing, and you can cover most brochure ware sites super easily.

yblu 5y ago

Thanks. How easy is it to add a custom page that retrieves data via REST? Does it have to be written in PHP and as a Wordpress plugin?

dmje 5y ago
If I've understood correctly, you'd make a new page template and make your new page use that. Then you can code this page up however you like. PHP, js, etc. The functions / classes you use could be in a plugin for portability, or just on the page or in your functions.php file for ease, whatever you like. The nice thing about building like this for me is that the journey from nothing to something is short and so much is supported out of the box.
- yblu 5y ago
  > The nice thing about building like this for me is that the journey from nothing to something is short and so much is supported out of the box. This sounds really tempting :). Thanks!

snowwrestler 5y ago

Can you give some examples of great web apps built on Wordpress? It’s a full-featured CMS as another commenter details, but to me a content website is not really what I think of when I hear “web app.”

codyogden 5y ago
Depends on what you’re doing with it. WordPress core is built to be highly customizable. I’ve built multiple projects that staple JS/React apps on top of the core WordPress Dashboard experience. It typically meant disabling the default post/page content editing and using WordPress in a headless fashion. The biggest business chore is usually around user management, roles, permissions—all easily expanded/modified through WP’s extremely well-documented core framework APIs. Custom REST API endpoints are a breeze to implement with or without authentication requirements. If you need external deps, you can manage them like any other modern php project with composer. Deploying is easy with docker and uploads sent off to some S3-like bucket. One recent project I built had WordPress driving fully custom content for a set of giant LED screens in a corporate HQ lobby that allowed users to build presentations, manage a recurring and one-off scheduling, build, edit, and manage reusable content, view live video feeds of what’s currently on the screens, and request static image and video preview renders from an on-prem media server. Users authenticate via the typical WP dashboard experience, but have rich web app features presented to them for their tasks using the WordPress custom REST API endpoints and the existing WP data model behind the scenes (for the most part). Any business needs they presented were easily absorbed by WordPress through straightforward customizations. IMO, WP is an underrated contender in building CRUD-ware.
- dmje 5y ago
  Yeh, my method is a bit different but only because I’m less knowledgeable about js / headless approaches. I tend to make the front end (what in a traditional site would be just “the website”) into the admin dashboard. So - a normal user never gets to see wp-admin at all. By using custom post types, ACF forms and user permissions you can get most stuff done pretty easily. One of the things I’ve done quite a lot is to use Wordpress multi site for building apps. Then each new client has their own site. If you use mu plugins you can trigger a new site creation to make all the pages you need, and configure / populate them. It’s a really compelling way of making apps, IMO

sputr 5y ago

I just wonder: have you ever developed anything in a proper framework like laravel or Symfony? I ask because not long ago what you write was true - but only if you've not seen how 'it can be' in modern stacks. WordPress is (was) great for a time that is (was) gone. I'm saying was because I have not worked with WP in a while so I can't really judge.

dmje 5y ago
I’ve played with laravel, and yeh, I can see it’s really compelling. But my personal use case is that we’re a tiny WP agency, so that’s where all our skills are. I’ve got a head full of ideas for apps, and the least friction to get to prototype (and production!) is using what we know. I’ve been really surprised at how much WP gives us out of the box.
- sputr 5y ago
  Yeah, I get that. "Use what you know" does beat most things. That's why I was asking - for someone who does not have your experience starting WP today, in my opinion, would be a mistake. If you're a "proper" developer, there are much easier, less painful, ways of making money (and making websites) than using WP. But that said, it's amazing to see what a proper developer with a lot of experience with WP ecosystem (which I'm guessing you are) can churn out in the website game.
  - dmje 5y ago
    Yeh, I agree. There are some nasty little WP pitfalls which can totally bite you on the ass if you're not used to it as an environment. I guess I'd also like to chew into what "a website" is. I mean - I still maintain that for basically all "normal" content-rich websites you'd be hard pushed to find a better solution than WordPress. It's not just the rich plugin/theme/development ecosystem* but the fact that editing is so, so simple that makes this the case - so although many modern solutions for delivering websites focus lots on the front end, actually (in my sector / experience - working with very content rich, complex sites), it's "a nice editing experience" that is critical too. At "transactional" level - ie as your "web thing" is less about pure content and more about "something app-like" then it becomes a different sort of problem. Saving state and logins and so on is absolutely in WP's space in theory, but you definitely run the risk of entering an arena where you're making it do things it really shouldn't be doing, and that can get really gnarly really quickly. But - having said that (and back to the thread) - I've been pleasantly surprised that using WP as an actual (simple!) web app framework brings lots to the table, and not many people have thought about it in this way. [* this is also a downside. We do "proper" WordPress development - fully bespoke "from scratch" themes, proper deployments etc - but many, many people just throw up a Divi site with 80 plugins and say they're a WordPress developer...]

quickthrower2 5y ago

Yes it is pleasantly surprising what you can create purely with themes and plugins. No code. Also surprising how much power you get from one of those cheap shared hosts like Hostgator.