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It may be deprecated, but there’s no sign that support will be removed from macOS (since lots of apps and games still use it). If they wanted to, the Apple Sili

It may be deprecated, but there’s no sign that support will be removed from macOS (since lots of apps and games still use it). If they wanted to, the Apple Silicon transition would have been the time to remove it, but that didn’t happen. On Apple Silicon it’s enabled by an OpenGL->Metal translation layer.

Klonoar 5y ago
Where is this OpenGL->Metal translation layer documented? I've seen numerous mentions of it but no actual docs state it clearly. I believe it to be true, based on my own checking, but I'd love to have a link to point people to as this has come up a few times.
- adamnemecek 5y ago
  It’s not going to be documented.
- mrpippy 5y ago
  It’s not documented anywhere. OpenGL just works like it does on any other Mac, and you won’t notice it unless you find bugs in it (Wine has some oddball OpenGL checks that trigger a Metal assertion on Big Sur)
  - Klonoar 5y ago
    Right, but my question is: do those checks only assert on Big Sur on M1, or is the mapping later from OpenGL -> Metal just Big Sur/Monterey regardless of platform? Just seems a bit odd to me they'd only do this on one architecture.
babypuncher 5y ago
I say this as an avid user of Apple hardware; I have no faith that they will really keep it around forever. They have shown very little willingness to maintain backwards compatibility with software for an extended period of time. Many games released for macOS less than a decade ago simply no longer function. Meanwhile, the Windows PC I built just a few years ago still runs software and games from 25 years ago. This is why I mostly refuse to buy games for my Apple hardware. Until Apple makes some serious commitments (and shows evidence of following through with them), I will not view my MacBook as a viable gaming device. Right now, I'm not even convinced Rosetta 2 will last more than 6 or 7 years.
- raphlinus 5y ago
  Specifically, I suspect one main reason they've kept it as long as they have is for WebGL support in Safari. Now they are investing in Angle[1], so going forward I expect that to be the primary path to WebGL compatibility. [1]: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ilUE_r5WNGlRhfGx71XH1E3CdTEpN1btGiQF4808AC8/edit#slide=id.p https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ilUE_r5WNGlRhfGx71XH...
- badsectoracula 5y ago
  It isn't just games, i bought an iMac back in 2009 which i used extensively for a couple of years and bought some software on it. I stopped using it as much in later years but i was still keeping it up to date with the latest OS versions, etc (until Apple stopped supporting the iMac itself). Pretty much every single macOS update had applications breaking. Some had updates, but not all programs did and some had weird things going on (e.g. i bought Pixelmator before they made a MAS version and since that was a paid update and i was fine with Pixelmator's functionality i just kept using that... until an OS update broke it and for some reason the tool palette doesn't show up at all). And of course there were games too, e.g. NOVA which stopped working several versions ago - and isn't available anywhere else (PC or whatever) either, so basically there isn't a way to play it at all nowadays (it may not be a great game and basically was a Halo ripoff for early iPhones, but i do not see quality as a reason for it to disappear - besides, it might have been one of someone's first games, people like to have those around).

Klonoar 5y ago

Where is this OpenGL->Metal translation layer documented? I've seen numerous mentions of it but no actual docs state it clearly. I believe it to be true, based on my own checking, but I'd love to have a link to point people to as this has come up a few times.

adamnemecek 5y ago
It’s not going to be documented.
mrpippy 5y ago
It’s not documented anywhere. OpenGL just works like it does on any other Mac, and you won’t notice it unless you find bugs in it (Wine has some oddball OpenGL checks that trigger a Metal assertion on Big Sur)
- Klonoar 5y ago
  Right, but my question is: do those checks only assert on Big Sur on M1, or is the mapping later from OpenGL -> Metal just Big Sur/Monterey regardless of platform? Just seems a bit odd to me they'd only do this on one architecture.

babypuncher 5y ago

I say this as an avid user of Apple hardware; I have no faith that they will really keep it around forever. They have shown very little willingness to maintain backwards compatibility with software for an extended period of time. Many games released for macOS less than a decade ago simply no longer function. Meanwhile, the Windows PC I built just a few years ago still runs software and games from 25 years ago. This is why I mostly refuse to buy games for my Apple hardware. Until Apple makes some serious commitments (and shows evidence of following through with them), I will not view my MacBook as a viable gaming device. Right now, I'm not even convinced Rosetta 2 will last more than 6 or 7 years.

raphlinus 5y ago
Specifically, I suspect one main reason they've kept it as long as they have is for WebGL support in Safari. Now they are investing in Angle[1], so going forward I expect that to be the primary path to WebGL compatibility. [1]: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ilUE_r5WNGlRhfGx71XH1E3CdTEpN1btGiQF4808AC8/edit#slide=id.p https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ilUE_r5WNGlRhfGx71XH...
badsectoracula 5y ago
It isn't just games, i bought an iMac back in 2009 which i used extensively for a couple of years and bought some software on it. I stopped using it as much in later years but i was still keeping it up to date with the latest OS versions, etc (until Apple stopped supporting the iMac itself). Pretty much every single macOS update had applications breaking. Some had updates, but not all programs did and some had weird things going on (e.g. i bought Pixelmator before they made a MAS version and since that was a paid update and i was fine with Pixelmator's functionality i just kept using that... until an OS update broke it and for some reason the tool palette doesn't show up at all). And of course there were games too, e.g. NOVA which stopped working several versions ago - and isn't available anywhere else (PC or whatever) either, so basically there isn't a way to play it at all nowadays (it may not be a great game and basically was a Halo ripoff for early iPhones, but i do not see quality as a reason for it to disappear - besides, it might have been one of someone's first games, people like to have those around).