6 ms·

Ask HN: Started new job, entire team quit shortly after

12 points by throw20211122 5y ago

First, some disclosure. I'm using a throwaway account given this has to do with my employment. I'm also being somewhat vague while providing enough high level detail to cover all the context. Now that's out of the way, as the title says I started a new job earlier this year and within two months members of the team began leaving the company. The second to last engineer of the team is on their way out now and while I understand now is the time for change for many people, I feel as if this puts me in a rather precarious position given my short time with the company and complexities of the work we do. All of the original domain knowledge has left, and I'm kind of stuck holding the bag should anything go south now. As far as I'm concerned these are my options: 1. Ride it out, maybe ask for a raise and/or promotion 2. Ask to be moved to another team 3. Start looking for a new position This brings me to why I'm posting. What would other HN users do in this situation? Thank you for any input -- this is a first in my career as a developer.

DrNuke 5y ago
You surely stay and do your best until your employer calls your team’s day imho? After that, which is option 1, it is not the job you signed up for anymore, then option 2 or 3.
ssss11 5y ago
My 2 cents: if you have a good relationship with your manager and you think they are a good manager I’d stay, but I’d tell them that I’m stressed with the situation and feel that we’ve lost a lot of the know how while I’m still new - they should understand and support you, and defend you if criticism comes in. I’d also do my best to increase knowledge to fill the gap and angle for seniority - it’s actually (probably) a net win in your situation unless the current state is a shambles. Of course it might not be the current great resignation behind this, I’d also try to figure out if something else is going on.. is there a culture problem, is the manager no good etc..
- throw20211122 5y ago
  I responded to another commenter with a detail I deliberately left off, which is my direct manager was one of the team members to leave. The next higher up manager oversees all the engineering teams in the company and has been hands off. I'm certainly spooked by this situation, though as you said this could be a significant net win given I will eventually have a majority the domain knowledge (if I'm kept on this current team), it's just not in my brain folds yet. Getting additional perspectives is super helpful, so thank you!
wyrm 5y ago
All three. Start looking for a new position. Things could go well, but if they start going badly, you want to have options outside the company. Start fishing for new opportunities within the company. If you're not also leaving, there must be something there worth keeping. So, if it looks like you're not on a project that is good for you, another project could be a better hole for the you-shaped peg. Start talking to your manager. If they haven't cancelled the project yet, maybe there's something going on behind the scenes. If you're going to be the senior employee on the project, you should have the pay, title, and fancy business cards to match. But do all three concurrently. There's no reason to let any one of those interfere with the others.
- throw20211122 5y ago
  I absolutely appreciate the input. One caveat I didn't list is my direct manager was one of those that left as well, the next higher level manager oversees all of the engineering teams and has been incredibly hands-off since the team manager departed. I will hit all three as you've raised an excellent point: having options is probably more important now than potentially having leverage come review time.
  - NonEUCitizen 5y ago
    The next higher-level manager could very well be looking to leave as well. Did you talk to other companies before taking this job? If so, let them know you're open to offers.
  - toast0 5y ago
    How much do you value hands-on management? Personally, I do well with benign neglect, so this could be a good setup for me. Spelunking in code I didn't write is fine for me too. However, this relies on having a reasonably clear idea of what your code is supposed to do, how to deliver changes, authority to make decisions and access to the tools you need. If you don't have the stuff you need and you don't have an accessible manager either, you're going to have a hard time staying positive and doing good work.
Raed667 5y ago
You could become the "senior" person very quickly. Communicate clearly when things seem too vague or need domain knowledge that will take you time to properly investigate. Shortly after, make clear that you are doing more senior work now and that you expect the compensation to be readjusted. If things start looking too stressful, move to option 2 then 3.
jeffyang 5y ago
Agree with doing all 3. Additional thoughts: 1. Can you ask to chat informally with the person leaving and see if there's a reason they all left? Might be interesting to know. Is this only on the one team or across the company? 2. Do you know if it's the type of culture that would punish you for holding the bag if things go south or one that would reward you? If the former, I would definitely change teams/companies. If the latter, it sounds like a great opportunity. If you aren't sure, maybe chat with other people to find out. 3. As mentioned, this could be a big opportunity. You could for example say that you'd be happy to run the team if they give you 2 engineers (or whatever you think you need). I wouldn't ask for a raise/promotion in the first conversation, but it's definitely something you want to discuss fairly early. 4. Definitely set up time with your higher level manager and see what their thoughts are. I would just be really up front with them, tell them how this definitely a unique situation, find out what their plans are, and let them know what you want to do. The worst thing is if they are hand wavy and give you a vague deadline for resolving things. Try to get to specifics, and even if they don't know, they should be able to give you a plan and a rough timeline for figuring out the resolution. Also want to mention that I'm hiring, feel free to reach out to me if you're interested (see my profile).
uptownfunk 5y ago
If they haven't spoken to you about a plan to fix things, go for 2 or 3, average load per node is only going to increase.
partisan 5y ago
In a case like this, management can either see the dilemma they are in or pretend it isn’t happening. If they pretend it isn’t happening then life will be very miserable for you. They will expect the same turnaround and throughput that they are used to and you will be on the hook to deliver. If they accept the situation then they may well decide to de-risk your team. That could come from bringing someone trusted over from another team and putting them in charge or by fully outsourcing the work. In that case, you do not benefit from the upside of being the critical member in the long term. So. I don’t think that staying the works in the long term and I think you will be facing an uphill climb in the interim as the company gets its bearings. Get the pay increase in the interim if possible.
throwawaynov11 5y ago
Is this an SLA'd role? If so, I'd be extremely cautious about "waiting it out". If it's strictly a development position that's a different story. It's too easy to get burned VERY badly being one of the "last men standing" among a team where work or support requirements revolve around a customer SLA. I have suffered extreme burnout from such a situation myself in the past. The potential upside of future seniority isn't worth it.
VoodooJuJu 5y ago
Do you know why they all left? I'm curious, and the answer might inform your decision. Are they getting different jobs in the same field? Are they taking up woodworking? What are they doing and why?

12 points by throw20211122 5y ago

DrNuke 5y ago

You surely stay and do your best until your employer calls your team’s day imho? After that, which is option 1, it is not the job you signed up for anymore, then option 2 or 3.

ssss11 5y ago

My 2 cents: if you have a good relationship with your manager and you think they are a good manager I’d stay, but I’d tell them that I’m stressed with the situation and feel that we’ve lost a lot of the know how while I’m still new - they should understand and support you, and defend you if criticism comes in. I’d also do my best to increase knowledge to fill the gap and angle for seniority - it’s actually (probably) a net win in your situation unless the current state is a shambles. Of course it might not be the current great resignation behind this, I’d also try to figure out if something else is going on.. is there a culture problem, is the manager no good etc..

throw20211122 5y ago
I responded to another commenter with a detail I deliberately left off, which is my direct manager was one of the team members to leave. The next higher up manager oversees all the engineering teams in the company and has been hands off. I'm certainly spooked by this situation, though as you said this could be a significant net win given I will eventually have a majority the domain knowledge (if I'm kept on this current team), it's just not in my brain folds yet. Getting additional perspectives is super helpful, so thank you!

wyrm 5y ago

All three. Start looking for a new position. Things could go well, but if they start going badly, you want to have options outside the company. Start fishing for new opportunities within the company. If you're not also leaving, there must be something there worth keeping. So, if it looks like you're not on a project that is good for you, another project could be a better hole for the you-shaped peg. Start talking to your manager. If they haven't cancelled the project yet, maybe there's something going on behind the scenes. If you're going to be the senior employee on the project, you should have the pay, title, and fancy business cards to match. But do all three concurrently. There's no reason to let any one of those interfere with the others.

throw20211122 5y ago
I absolutely appreciate the input. One caveat I didn't list is my direct manager was one of those that left as well, the next higher level manager oversees all of the engineering teams and has been incredibly hands-off since the team manager departed. I will hit all three as you've raised an excellent point: having options is probably more important now than potentially having leverage come review time.
- NonEUCitizen 5y ago
  The next higher-level manager could very well be looking to leave as well. Did you talk to other companies before taking this job? If so, let them know you're open to offers.
- toast0 5y ago
  How much do you value hands-on management? Personally, I do well with benign neglect, so this could be a good setup for me. Spelunking in code I didn't write is fine for me too. However, this relies on having a reasonably clear idea of what your code is supposed to do, how to deliver changes, authority to make decisions and access to the tools you need. If you don't have the stuff you need and you don't have an accessible manager either, you're going to have a hard time staying positive and doing good work.

Raed667 5y ago

You could become the "senior" person very quickly. Communicate clearly when things seem too vague or need domain knowledge that will take you time to properly investigate. Shortly after, make clear that you are doing more senior work now and that you expect the compensation to be readjusted. If things start looking too stressful, move to option 2 then 3.

jeffyang 5y ago

Agree with doing all 3. Additional thoughts: 1. Can you ask to chat informally with the person leaving and see if there's a reason they all left? Might be interesting to know. Is this only on the one team or across the company? 2. Do you know if it's the type of culture that would punish you for holding the bag if things go south or one that would reward you? If the former, I would definitely change teams/companies. If the latter, it sounds like a great opportunity. If you aren't sure, maybe chat with other people to find out. 3. As mentioned, this could be a big opportunity. You could for example say that you'd be happy to run the team if they give you 2 engineers (or whatever you think you need). I wouldn't ask for a raise/promotion in the first conversation, but it's definitely something you want to discuss fairly early. 4. Definitely set up time with your higher level manager and see what their thoughts are. I would just be really up front with them, tell them how this definitely a unique situation, find out what their plans are, and let them know what you want to do. The worst thing is if they are hand wavy and give you a vague deadline for resolving things. Try to get to specifics, and even if they don't know, they should be able to give you a plan and a rough timeline for figuring out the resolution. Also want to mention that I'm hiring, feel free to reach out to me if you're interested (see my profile).

uptownfunk 5y ago

If they haven't spoken to you about a plan to fix things, go for 2 or 3, average load per node is only going to increase.

partisan 5y ago

In a case like this, management can either see the dilemma they are in or pretend it isn’t happening. If they pretend it isn’t happening then life will be very miserable for you. They will expect the same turnaround and throughput that they are used to and you will be on the hook to deliver. If they accept the situation then they may well decide to de-risk your team. That could come from bringing someone trusted over from another team and putting them in charge or by fully outsourcing the work. In that case, you do not benefit from the upside of being the critical member in the long term. So. I don’t think that staying the works in the long term and I think you will be facing an uphill climb in the interim as the company gets its bearings. Get the pay increase in the interim if possible.

throwawaynov11 5y ago

Is this an SLA'd role? If so, I'd be extremely cautious about "waiting it out". If it's strictly a development position that's a different story. It's too easy to get burned VERY badly being one of the "last men standing" among a team where work or support requirements revolve around a customer SLA. I have suffered extreme burnout from such a situation myself in the past. The potential upside of future seniority isn't worth it.

VoodooJuJu 5y ago

Do you know why they all left? I'm curious, and the answer might inform your decision. Are they getting different jobs in the same field? Are they taking up woodworking? What are they doing and why?