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A reminder that no one's making you use Amazon, especially the Alexa stuff. I invested in Mycroft to try and kickstart a privacy-focused alternative; the hardw

A reminder that no one's making you use Amazon, especially the Alexa stuff. I invested in Mycroft to try and kickstart a privacy-focused alternative; the hardware isn't there yet but they've made good strides on the software side. You can invest too! https://www.startengine.com/mycroftai https://www.startengine.com/mycroftai Make the world we want to live in.

tyingq 5y ago
Some of it is foisted on you whether you like it or not though. Like your across-the-street neighbor's Ring doorbell sharing HD footage of you, your house, etc, to law enforcement.
- willis936 5y ago
  I noticed an Alexa in a family member's bathroom recently. Yeah, I don't have to own them, but that doesn't mean their existence doesn't affect me. This is ripe for legislation.
  - Brendinooo 5y ago
    Sure. I just don't want to get my hopes too high that I'll get what I want in that arena...
LogonType10 5y ago
Amazon delivery vans scan nearby WiFi networks for SSIDs and tag that with geolocation. Amazon knows all about your home network.
- jjulius 5y ago
  This is the first time I've heard that claim. Can you please provide a source?
- mistrial9 5y ago
  Google pioneered this on mass-scale, I dont doubt it
  - leecb 5y ago
    Skyhook started doing this in 2003; their technology was used in earlier iPhone models to determine location without using GPS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless EDIT: used by iPhone OS until version 3.2: https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-16945 https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-16945
- emptycan 5y ago
  That's quite a leap from "scan SSID" to knowing "all about your home network" and sounds like hyperbole. What can I gather from just passively scanning SSID and possibly putting out some probes on a properly configured WiFi network? I imagine some things like number of hosts, MAC addresses, traffic stats - which is not ideal, but hardly what I would call knowing "all about it". I'm quite the privacy nut, but I always think its ridiculous that people cry foul about what people do with data that is being broadcast over the airwaves. If you really care about privacy and don't trust WPA2 then don't fucking use WiFi!
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    broadcast over the airwaves Intent matters a great deal. Very few people intend for their wifi to reach their neighbors or the street. There is already an expectation of privacy for visible and IR wavelengths of the EM spectrum.
    - emptycan 5y ago
      I don't agree intent has any relevance here vs the other issues at hand, and it is news to me that there is some actual distinct expectation of privacy with regards to wavelength as you state. Visible and IR wavelengths don't reach outside through non-windows, because of physics - but I don't think there is any inherent expectation of privacy - quite the opposite. If you leave your front bay window open and people outside can see in, and you call the police for privacy invasion they will laugh in your face in most places - in fact if you are doing something deemed obscene or distasteful you may be the one arrested - and for good reason. They'll tell you to get something to block the light like a curtain. Whether or not people intend it - wifi signals easily will make it to the street - and they're on shared spectrum. Especially if you're going to pollute the public ISM band - it's sort of on you to take whatever precautions you need to stay safe whether that is better encryption, a faraday cage or just abstaining and finding alternative means. If you start blasting loud noises 24/7 constantly in your neighborhood and someone complains, is your response going to be well, "I don't intend for this garbage to reach my neighbors"?
      - 5y ago
r00fus 5y ago
> A reminder that no one's making you use Amazon, especially the Alexa stuff. What happens when you kid's friends use and they visit? What happens when everything is "Alexa enabled" and comes on by default? Voting with your wallet doesn't work against sufficiently large vendor who's willing to lose money to achieve their goals.
- gopher_space 5y ago
  Voting with your wallet isn't a situation where you're concerned about the results. The point isn't so much to change bad behavior as it is to disassociate yourself from it. If enough people become aware of the option and follow suit, change might occur that you'd like. That isn't what motivates you.
  - r00fus 5y ago
    > Voting with your wallet isn't a situation where you're concerned about the results. Unclear what you are trying to say but honestly it's a pain I have to do this everywhere. That's why we have regulation & legislation: so corporations don't have to get "market signals" they're free to ignore, vs laws they must actually follow or get fined/held liable.
    - gopher_space 5y ago
      > Unclear what you are trying to say It's like removing a jerk from your life who happens to make amazing tacos. I'm going to miss those tacos but life is too short. The 2nd best taco truck is a block away in this scenario. > but honestly it's a pain I have to do this everywhere. Right???
hulitu 5y ago
> A reminder that no one's making you use Amazon, especially the Alexa stuff. A reminder that even in EU Alexa seems to be ok ( from State POV) even if it violates GDPR.
diveanon 5y ago
Or just leave the US and stop participating in this failed experiment. You can’t make things better when half the people around you are making it worse.
- Brendinooo 5y ago
  No thanks! I like my country just fine, and would prefer to make it better if I can.

tyingq 5y ago

Some of it is foisted on you whether you like it or not though. Like your across-the-street neighbor's Ring doorbell sharing HD footage of you, your house, etc, to law enforcement.

willis936 5y ago
I noticed an Alexa in a family member's bathroom recently. Yeah, I don't have to own them, but that doesn't mean their existence doesn't affect me. This is ripe for legislation.
- Brendinooo 5y ago
  Sure. I just don't want to get my hopes too high that I'll get what I want in that arena...

LogonType10 5y ago

Amazon delivery vans scan nearby WiFi networks for SSIDs and tag that with geolocation. Amazon knows all about your home network.

jjulius 5y ago
This is the first time I've heard that claim. Can you please provide a source?
mistrial9 5y ago
Google pioneered this on mass-scale, I dont doubt it
- leecb 5y ago
  Skyhook started doing this in 2003; their technology was used in earlier iPhone models to determine location without using GPS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless EDIT: used by iPhone OS until version 3.2: https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-16945 https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-16945
emptycan 5y ago
That's quite a leap from "scan SSID" to knowing "all about your home network" and sounds like hyperbole. What can I gather from just passively scanning SSID and possibly putting out some probes on a properly configured WiFi network? I imagine some things like number of hosts, MAC addresses, traffic stats - which is not ideal, but hardly what I would call knowing "all about it". I'm quite the privacy nut, but I always think its ridiculous that people cry foul about what people do with data that is being broadcast over the airwaves. If you really care about privacy and don't trust WPA2 then don't fucking use WiFi!
- nitrogen 5y ago
  broadcast over the airwaves Intent matters a great deal. Very few people intend for their wifi to reach their neighbors or the street. There is already an expectation of privacy for visible and IR wavelengths of the EM spectrum.
  - emptycan 5y ago
    I don't agree intent has any relevance here vs the other issues at hand, and it is news to me that there is some actual distinct expectation of privacy with regards to wavelength as you state. Visible and IR wavelengths don't reach outside through non-windows, because of physics - but I don't think there is any inherent expectation of privacy - quite the opposite. If you leave your front bay window open and people outside can see in, and you call the police for privacy invasion they will laugh in your face in most places - in fact if you are doing something deemed obscene or distasteful you may be the one arrested - and for good reason. They'll tell you to get something to block the light like a curtain. Whether or not people intend it - wifi signals easily will make it to the street - and they're on shared spectrum. Especially if you're going to pollute the public ISM band - it's sort of on you to take whatever precautions you need to stay safe whether that is better encryption, a faraday cage or just abstaining and finding alternative means. If you start blasting loud noises 24/7 constantly in your neighborhood and someone complains, is your response going to be well, "I don't intend for this garbage to reach my neighbors"?
    - 5y ago

r00fus 5y ago

> A reminder that no one's making you use Amazon, especially the Alexa stuff. What happens when you kid's friends use and they visit? What happens when everything is "Alexa enabled" and comes on by default? Voting with your wallet doesn't work against sufficiently large vendor who's willing to lose money to achieve their goals.

gopher_space 5y ago
Voting with your wallet isn't a situation where you're concerned about the results. The point isn't so much to change bad behavior as it is to disassociate yourself from it. If enough people become aware of the option and follow suit, change might occur that you'd like. That isn't what motivates you.
- r00fus 5y ago
  > Voting with your wallet isn't a situation where you're concerned about the results. Unclear what you are trying to say but honestly it's a pain I have to do this everywhere. That's why we have regulation & legislation: so corporations don't have to get "market signals" they're free to ignore, vs laws they must actually follow or get fined/held liable.
  - gopher_space 5y ago
    > Unclear what you are trying to say It's like removing a jerk from your life who happens to make amazing tacos. I'm going to miss those tacos but life is too short. The 2nd best taco truck is a block away in this scenario. > but honestly it's a pain I have to do this everywhere. Right???

hulitu 5y ago

> A reminder that no one's making you use Amazon, especially the Alexa stuff. A reminder that even in EU Alexa seems to be ok ( from State POV) even if it violates GDPR.

diveanon 5y ago

Or just leave the US and stop participating in this failed experiment. You can’t make things better when half the people around you are making it worse.

Brendinooo 5y ago
No thanks! I like my country just fine, and would prefer to make it better if I can.