4 ms·

> Linux has changed the world -- in a very substantial way and much for the better -- even though Linus flew off the handle at people for years. That doesn't me

by zemo 5y ago

> Linux has changed the world -- in a very substantial way and much for the better -- even though Linus flew off the handle at people for years. That doesn't mean he is completely beyond criticism, but it does indicate to me that we need to put a significant check in place against these "feelings committees." Their sensibilities are becoming ever more delicate. I think that's a pretty bad example, considering Linus took time off and reevaluated, publicly apologized and acknowledged how his behavior was harming Linux. > competency often makes people a little rougher around the edges. That seems pretty unsubstantiated.

azth 5y ago
There's a difference between how very bold Linus was with his insults to today's "cocs" which makes people walk on eggshells being too afraid to say or insinuate something that may be perceived as "incorrect".
- zemo 5y ago
  Here is the Rust code of conduct: https://www.rust-lang.org/policies/code-of-conduct https://www.rust-lang.org/policies/code-of-conduct Can you provide an example of something in the code of conduct that you think makes people walk on eggshells?
  - hu3 5y ago
    Acording to the link I have to be friendly, safety inducing, welcoming, kind (non rude), keep unstructured critique to a minimum, non-insulting and be careful not to demean or harass anyone. This is ripe for misinterpretation and witch-hunting. It will get people to walk on eggshells. In my circles these rules are called comon sense. We don't have to write things down because every adult knows the rule: Don't be an asshole.
    - astrange 5y ago
      Most of this is the accepted behavior for white people in San Francisco (somewhere on the scale from nice to passive aggressive), but not so much outside the West Coast. Although, many British insults read as compliments to Americans, so maybe it's possible to maliciously comply.
  - magicalhippo 5y ago
    From the CoC: > Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude. > Even if you feel you were misinterpreted or unfairly accused, chances are good there was something you could’ve communicated better — remember that it’s your responsibility to make your fellow Rustaceans comfortable. Us Norwegians are well known for coming across as rude. And especially since being mean or rude is a subjective thing, I feel it's highly likely I could come across as unintentionally rude to others. And according to that it's my fault if I do. I definitely think twice before interacting with a community that has a CoC like that, because I don't need such drama in my life.
  - vegai_ 5y ago
    The Rust community is famous for being friendly. This means that people who are not good at being friendly are being careful what they say there, or have left that space.
    - zemo 5y ago
      huh, my impression is that the Rust community is famous for being unfriendly.
- tigerlily 5y ago
  They say if you feel like you're walking on eggshells, it means you're in an abusive relationship. In the olden days of forums we had none of this nonsense. The community would agree a user was toxic and the mods would kick. It seemed like there were better controls, or that this was a better design. Maybe because GitHub is so centralized, and every action so public it feels like there is some kind of global audience, so there are all these wasteful airs and graces? Idk

by zemo 5y ago

azth 5y ago

There's a difference between how very bold Linus was with his insults to today's "cocs" which makes people walk on eggshells being too afraid to say or insinuate something that may be perceived as "incorrect".

zemo 5y ago
Here is the Rust code of conduct: https://www.rust-lang.org/policies/code-of-conduct https://www.rust-lang.org/policies/code-of-conduct Can you provide an example of something in the code of conduct that you think makes people walk on eggshells?
- hu3 5y ago
  Acording to the link I have to be friendly, safety inducing, welcoming, kind (non rude), keep unstructured critique to a minimum, non-insulting and be careful not to demean or harass anyone. This is ripe for misinterpretation and witch-hunting. It will get people to walk on eggshells. In my circles these rules are called comon sense. We don't have to write things down because every adult knows the rule: Don't be an asshole.
  - astrange 5y ago
    Most of this is the accepted behavior for white people in San Francisco (somewhere on the scale from nice to passive aggressive), but not so much outside the West Coast. Although, many British insults read as compliments to Americans, so maybe it's possible to maliciously comply.
- magicalhippo 5y ago
  From the CoC: > Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude. > Even if you feel you were misinterpreted or unfairly accused, chances are good there was something you could’ve communicated better — remember that it’s your responsibility to make your fellow Rustaceans comfortable. Us Norwegians are well known for coming across as rude. And especially since being mean or rude is a subjective thing, I feel it's highly likely I could come across as unintentionally rude to others. And according to that it's my fault if I do. I definitely think twice before interacting with a community that has a CoC like that, because I don't need such drama in my life.
- vegai_ 5y ago
  The Rust community is famous for being friendly. This means that people who are not good at being friendly are being careful what they say there, or have left that space.
  - zemo 5y ago
    huh, my impression is that the Rust community is famous for being unfriendly.
tigerlily 5y ago
They say if you feel like you're walking on eggshells, it means you're in an abusive relationship. In the olden days of forums we had none of this nonsense. The community would agree a user was toxic and the mods would kick. It seemed like there were better controls, or that this was a better design. Maybe because GitHub is so centralized, and every action so public it feels like there is some kind of global audience, so there are all these wasteful airs and graces? Idk