5 ms·

There are many privacy-conscious non tech-nerd's who like nothing more than watching a video of some guy punching in different passwords on a phone.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Yes - but Purism is really limiting their audience here, going for the tech nerd privacy conscious crowd. I know far more people in my life who are privacy conscious but not tech nerds, to the point they would consider buying a flip phone. If Purism marketed to them as being a superior private flip-phone alternative, they could sell far more phones. I guess what upsets me most is that Linux companies like Purism claim they want to build a 3rd ecosystem. You aren’t going to get a 3rd ecosystem going with videos like that.
- fsflover 5y ago
  Perhaps you will like videos here more: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    That is better, but it doesn't negate my point that for non-tech-nerds, that announcement video of the new OS is pretty droll. I think my point is more along the lines that Linux people overestimate regular folk's interest in specs and details. But that isn't a winning strategy in the real world. Apple doesn't say how many megapixels their cameras have, or how many GBs of RAM their phones have, or the CPU clock speed, or the modem version - and the specs they do give, they don't advertise them out loud. Has Apple ever announced that we have a 2000xSomething OLED display in huge letters? No, it's a "Liquid Retina XDR" display and that's all most people need to know. If you really care, it's in the specs sheet. That's also not counting the actually embarrassing parts of this release. You just got a Camera app? In 2021, where phones are all about Cameras, you only got an out-of-the-box Camera app just now? (Maybe there was a camera app earlier - but the release video implies the camera app is all-new and wasn't there before.) And despite not advertising specs - they sell just fine. If Apple got overly technical, they might sell less because it's confusing.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      > that announcement video of the new OS is pretty droll The whole post is droll, it's a big fat nothing-burger based on my casual perusal. Felt like they just needed to say something about the version number changing on their distro.
      - fsflover 5y ago
        So you think that convergence is nothing? Perhaps you know some other vendor developing and selling phones with a desktop OS and desktop apps?
        pengaru 5y ago
        Based on my understanding of how all this "convergence" stuff is integrated into GTK/GNOME apps; by explicit integration of libhandy, I know this is a rather unsubstantial post because I didn't see anything illustrating GTK+ apps I actually care about working "convergently". i.e. there was no demonstration of GIMP working in a phone/tablet touch interface being dragged into a desktop monitor seamlessly. So, what exactly am I supposed to be impressed by here? Maybe I need to revisit the post, since I did skim it pretty quickly.
        fsflover 5y ago
        > GIMP working in a phone/tablet touch interface being dragged into a desktop monitor seamlessly. It's a desktop OS. If you connect an external monitor, you can use any desktop software, including GIMP. Works fine on my Pinephone with phosh.
        pengaru 5y ago
        > It's a desktop OS. If you connect an external monitor, you can use any desktop software, including GIMP. Works fine on my Pinephone with phosh. How is that any different than literally any other distro you can boot on a handheld? You're basically confirming my point; nothing especially "convergent" about pureos to see here, no?
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    Adding to my prior comment above: If I was trying to build a 3rd Ecosystem, this webpage is, even though better than the announcement, still pretty bad. The top half part is quite good. It's not presenting itself as modern or slick, but as privacy and freedom and transparency. It's a good angle, because hardware is not this phone's strength. The bottom half is where things go off the rails. "One Powerful GPU?" Don't gaslight me - anyone who has played a game on a smartphone looks at that and goes oof. HTML5 apps because you don't have real apps? Blegh - especially because it says in the description "we plan to." The "competitive chart"? A huge mistake because it gives the competition absolutely no points - which makes it look obviously biased and completely lacking credibility. What other company makes "competitive charts" that don't acknowledge, at least somewhat, the good points about the competition? And then there's the availability part which is just really bad. 52 weeks? There will be two OnePlus phones, a new iPhone model, and a new Samsung model by the time that thing supposedly ships. Also, if you are really concerned about your privacy - you can't wait a year being no more private than before!
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > "One Powerful GPU?" Don't gaslight me - anyone who has played a game on a smartphone looks at that and goes oof. It's the best mobile GPU working with fully free software. This is for the audience that cares about it. > HTML5 apps because you don't have real apps? But they do have real apps. Thousands of desktop Linux apps. > Also, if you are really concerned about your privacy - you can't wait a year being no more private than before! If you're in a hurry, consider this: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa. Agree concerning the "competitive chart". Still it looks funny IMHO.
      - megous 5y ago
        > It's the best mobile GPU working with fully free software. This is for the audience that cares about it. T860MP4 in Pinebook/Pinephone Pro is similar or better, and also works with fully free software.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    Wow, a lot of the copy on that page is pretty bad... "Parents: You will love the Librem 5 because it will allow you to communicate with your child, ..." -- Um, in 2021 people know what a phone is. Maybe skip to the part about why yours is better than the competition? "Lifetime updates that actually extend your phone’s life" -- Do they think updates from other companies make their phones self destruct? Seems like they're alluding to specific scandals, but it is kind of odd not to link to them directly. Also comes across as really evasive to not say how many years of updates they guarantee. "Real convergence means bringing your desktop computer with you wherever you go." -- Have you not heard of a laptop? Surely they could have started with an actual definition of what convergence means. Doesn't help that the rest of the paragraph is talking about how hard they worked shrinking the OS instead of why you'd want the feature. (Side note: operating systems are software so nothing special is needed to get one to physically fit in my pocket)
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > Do they think updates from other companies make their phones self destruct? Actually, it's the lack of updates from other companies making their phones self-destruct, as in they become unusable bricks. If the software is proprietary, you have no way of updating it yourself. > Also comes across as really evasive to not say how many years of updates they guarantee. It's "forever". The devices run FLOSS, which means that even if Purism disappears, they will still get updates from the Linux community. My 12+-year-old laptop runs latest Debian. > Surely they could have started with an actual definition of what convergence means. It's linked: https://puri.sm/posts/converging-on-convergence-pureos-is-convergent-welcome-to-the-future/ https://puri.sm/posts/converging-on-convergence-pureos-is-co....
      - seoaeu 5y ago
        Those are all reasonable arguments which would have made sense to include on the product webpage. That said, are there really that many people who are unhappy with the 5-7 years of support that a company like Apple provides? And is it really such a great strategy to emphasize a target audience of "people who want to keep their phones indefinitely instead of buying new ones"?
- moffkalast 5y ago
  > going for the tech nerd privacy conscious crowd Which is kind of stupid frankly, most of those will rather install themselves something custom.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Yes - but Purism is really limiting their audience here, going for the tech nerd privacy conscious crowd. I know far more people in my life who are privacy conscious but not tech nerds, to the point they would consider buying a flip phone. If Purism marketed to them as being a superior private flip-phone alternative, they could sell far more phones. I guess what upsets me most is that Linux companies like Purism claim they want to build a 3rd ecosystem. You aren’t going to get a 3rd ecosystem going with videos like that.

fsflover 5y ago
Perhaps you will like videos here more: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  That is better, but it doesn't negate my point that for non-tech-nerds, that announcement video of the new OS is pretty droll. I think my point is more along the lines that Linux people overestimate regular folk's interest in specs and details. But that isn't a winning strategy in the real world. Apple doesn't say how many megapixels their cameras have, or how many GBs of RAM their phones have, or the CPU clock speed, or the modem version - and the specs they do give, they don't advertise them out loud. Has Apple ever announced that we have a 2000xSomething OLED display in huge letters? No, it's a "Liquid Retina XDR" display and that's all most people need to know. If you really care, it's in the specs sheet. That's also not counting the actually embarrassing parts of this release. You just got a Camera app? In 2021, where phones are all about Cameras, you only got an out-of-the-box Camera app just now? (Maybe there was a camera app earlier - but the release video implies the camera app is all-new and wasn't there before.) And despite not advertising specs - they sell just fine. If Apple got overly technical, they might sell less because it's confusing.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    > that announcement video of the new OS is pretty droll The whole post is droll, it's a big fat nothing-burger based on my casual perusal. Felt like they just needed to say something about the version number changing on their distro.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      So you think that convergence is nothing? Perhaps you know some other vendor developing and selling phones with a desktop OS and desktop apps?
      - pengaru 5y ago
        Based on my understanding of how all this "convergence" stuff is integrated into GTK/GNOME apps; by explicit integration of libhandy, I know this is a rather unsubstantial post because I didn't see anything illustrating GTK+ apps I actually care about working "convergently". i.e. there was no demonstration of GIMP working in a phone/tablet touch interface being dragged into a desktop monitor seamlessly. So, what exactly am I supposed to be impressed by here? Maybe I need to revisit the post, since I did skim it pretty quickly.
        fsflover 5y ago
        > GIMP working in a phone/tablet touch interface being dragged into a desktop monitor seamlessly. It's a desktop OS. If you connect an external monitor, you can use any desktop software, including GIMP. Works fine on my Pinephone with phosh.
        pengaru 5y ago
        > It's a desktop OS. If you connect an external monitor, you can use any desktop software, including GIMP. Works fine on my Pinephone with phosh. How is that any different than literally any other distro you can boot on a handheld? You're basically confirming my point; nothing especially "convergent" about pureos to see here, no?
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Adding to my prior comment above: If I was trying to build a 3rd Ecosystem, this webpage is, even though better than the announcement, still pretty bad. The top half part is quite good. It's not presenting itself as modern or slick, but as privacy and freedom and transparency. It's a good angle, because hardware is not this phone's strength. The bottom half is where things go off the rails. "One Powerful GPU?" Don't gaslight me - anyone who has played a game on a smartphone looks at that and goes oof. HTML5 apps because you don't have real apps? Blegh - especially because it says in the description "we plan to." The "competitive chart"? A huge mistake because it gives the competition absolutely no points - which makes it look obviously biased and completely lacking credibility. What other company makes "competitive charts" that don't acknowledge, at least somewhat, the good points about the competition? And then there's the availability part which is just really bad. 52 weeks? There will be two OnePlus phones, a new iPhone model, and a new Samsung model by the time that thing supposedly ships. Also, if you are really concerned about your privacy - you can't wait a year being no more private than before!
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > "One Powerful GPU?" Don't gaslight me - anyone who has played a game on a smartphone looks at that and goes oof. It's the best mobile GPU working with fully free software. This is for the audience that cares about it. > HTML5 apps because you don't have real apps? But they do have real apps. Thousands of desktop Linux apps. > Also, if you are really concerned about your privacy - you can't wait a year being no more private than before! If you're in a hurry, consider this: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa. Agree concerning the "competitive chart". Still it looks funny IMHO.
    - megous 5y ago
      > It's the best mobile GPU working with fully free software. This is for the audience that cares about it. T860MP4 in Pinebook/Pinephone Pro is similar or better, and also works with fully free software.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  Wow, a lot of the copy on that page is pretty bad... "Parents: You will love the Librem 5 because it will allow you to communicate with your child, ..." -- Um, in 2021 people know what a phone is. Maybe skip to the part about why yours is better than the competition? "Lifetime updates that actually extend your phone’s life" -- Do they think updates from other companies make their phones self destruct? Seems like they're alluding to specific scandals, but it is kind of odd not to link to them directly. Also comes across as really evasive to not say how many years of updates they guarantee. "Real convergence means bringing your desktop computer with you wherever you go." -- Have you not heard of a laptop? Surely they could have started with an actual definition of what convergence means. Doesn't help that the rest of the paragraph is talking about how hard they worked shrinking the OS instead of why you'd want the feature. (Side note: operating systems are software so nothing special is needed to get one to physically fit in my pocket)
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > Do they think updates from other companies make their phones self destruct? Actually, it's the lack of updates from other companies making their phones self-destruct, as in they become unusable bricks. If the software is proprietary, you have no way of updating it yourself. > Also comes across as really evasive to not say how many years of updates they guarantee. It's "forever". The devices run FLOSS, which means that even if Purism disappears, they will still get updates from the Linux community. My 12+-year-old laptop runs latest Debian. > Surely they could have started with an actual definition of what convergence means. It's linked: https://puri.sm/posts/converging-on-convergence-pureos-is-convergent-welcome-to-the-future/ https://puri.sm/posts/converging-on-convergence-pureos-is-co....
    - seoaeu 5y ago
      Those are all reasonable arguments which would have made sense to include on the product webpage. That said, are there really that many people who are unhappy with the 5-7 years of support that a company like Apple provides? And is it really such a great strategy to emphasize a target audience of "people who want to keep their phones indefinitely instead of buying new ones"?
moffkalast 5y ago
> going for the tech nerd privacy conscious crowd Which is kind of stupid frankly, most of those will rather install themselves something custom.