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> You'll never get everyone to settle on the same moral values so it's inevitable that you'll get someone who is unapologetic about some value they hold. I'm l

> You'll never get everyone to settle on the same moral values so it's inevitable that you'll get someone who is unapologetic about some value they hold. I'm less familiar with Rust community moderation, but as an example of what not to do, I would offer up the Go maintainers' strategy of advertising unrelated, partisan, ideological content on their web pages and then shutting down any kind of critical conversation about it. To be clear (if only so people know what they're downvoting!), I'm an avid Go enthusiast--the language is great and the maintainers are generally good at designing a language; however, I sharply disagree with their approach to managing the community.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
radlad 5y ago
It's sad that the Equal Justice Initiative[0] (linked by the Go homepage) is considered partisan. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Justice_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Justice_Initiative
- ptsneves 5y ago
  It is also completely unrelated to a programing language, so the commenter's grievance seems founded.
- anandrew 5y ago
  The full statement on golang.org is: "Black Lives Matter. Support the Equal Justice Initiative." Perhaps the poster was referring to the first half?
- malaya_zemlya 5y ago
  i think the parent was referring to https://github.com/golang/go/issues/45970 https://github.com/golang/go/issues/45970
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    Yes, this is what I was talking about. Shame on me for thinking people wouldn't overlook the first three words of the banner. (:
    - radlad 5y ago
      I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. It still surprises me that the phrase "black lives matter" is partisan.
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        It really shouldn't: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29308714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29308714
      - makomk 5y ago
        At this point, the slogan "black lives matter" seems to be more of a partisan talking point than any kind of indication that the person using it does, in fact, consider black lives to actually matter. Up to and including shooting white people somehow being more of an attack on the notion that black lives matter than shooting and killing a black teenager, just because of the perceived partisan affiliation of the shooters...
- pc86 5y ago
  I mean they certainly have a partisan stance re: prisons and incarceration. Not to say whether it's a good stance or not, but it's certainly partisan. Partisan doesn't mean "I disagree with this." But whatever it is and whatever your opinion of it, it's hard to make a cogent argument that it belongs as a banner on the front page of a programming language website.
  - radlad 5y ago
    > I mean they certainly have a partisan stance re: prisons and incarceration. I did not realize that providing counsel to inmates was a partisan issue. > But whatever it is and whatever your opinion of it, it's hard to make a cogent argument that it belongs as a banner on the front page of a programming language website. This is unrelated to my comment.
    - pc86 5y ago
      Unrelated to your comment maybe, but not the thread. It's certainly germane whether your choose to acknowledge it or not. I'm clearly not referring to "providing counsel" and it takes only 10-15 seconds of reading their homepage to see policy positions that any reasonable person could consider partisan. But nice straw man. Let me know when you're interested in an actual discussion and not this nonsense.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
DrBenCarson 5y ago
> Providing legal representation to those who may have been denied a fair trial This is partisan?
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Obviously I was talking about "Black Lives Matter".
  - badRNG 5y ago
    Generally speaking, organizations providing statements in favor of human rights have been in fairly safe territory. Historically, businesses supporting desegregation, the Civil Rights Act, LGBTQ inclusivity, or other human rights issues have been either unharmed or benefitted from the stance, even if there's no material contribution to the cause, and even if the fight for human rights is partisan (it almost always is.)
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      No one disputes the human rights of black people. What is disputed is whether police killings are racially motivated or whether American police are too often heavy handed irrespective of race (94% of Americans believe that some police reform is needed[0]). Of course, virtually everyone understands that blacks are killed disproportionately by police, but that doesn't imply a racial motive when we know for fact that there are disparities in the commission of violent crime, rates of police interaction, etc which could also explain the disparity in shootings. And of course, the particular remedial policies depend significantly on the answers to these questions. In particular, people who identify strongly with BLM are much more likely to advocate defunding or abolishing the police (but are also the least happy that inadequate policing led citizens to defend themselves during various BLM riots in 2020, including the Rittenhouse case). Further still, there's a lot of controversy over whether violence or non-violence are the appropriate way to seek the reforms one desires, with virtually the whole of the media downplaying or actively justifying political violence (even invoking MLK's "riots are the language of the oppressed" out of context[1]) right up until January 6th, 2021 when political violence abruptly and rightly regained its "reprehensible" designation. Further still, contrary to the media portrait, a majority of black Americans don't support violent protest or the abolition or defunding of police--like most other Americans, they want sensible police reform[0]. So yes, BLM is quite controversial in American politics for reasons which have little to do with clear cut advocacy for human rights. [0]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/315962/americans-say-policing-needs-major-changes.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/315962/americans-say-policing-n... [1]: One of the more memorable examples was CNN adding the "fiery but mostly peaceful" caption as a journalist sporting a gas mask reported against a backdrop of a dozen burning vehicles.
dang 5y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29307409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29307409.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

radlad 5y ago

It's sad that the Equal Justice Initiative[0] (linked by the Go homepage) is considered partisan. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Justice_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Justice_Initiative

ptsneves 5y ago
It is also completely unrelated to a programing language, so the commenter's grievance seems founded.
anandrew 5y ago
The full statement on golang.org is: "Black Lives Matter. Support the Equal Justice Initiative." Perhaps the poster was referring to the first half?
malaya_zemlya 5y ago
i think the parent was referring to https://github.com/golang/go/issues/45970 https://github.com/golang/go/issues/45970
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Yes, this is what I was talking about. Shame on me for thinking people wouldn't overlook the first three words of the banner. (:
  - radlad 5y ago
    I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. It still surprises me that the phrase "black lives matter" is partisan.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      It really shouldn't: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29308714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29308714
    - makomk 5y ago
      At this point, the slogan "black lives matter" seems to be more of a partisan talking point than any kind of indication that the person using it does, in fact, consider black lives to actually matter. Up to and including shooting white people somehow being more of an attack on the notion that black lives matter than shooting and killing a black teenager, just because of the perceived partisan affiliation of the shooters...
pc86 5y ago
I mean they certainly have a partisan stance re: prisons and incarceration. Not to say whether it's a good stance or not, but it's certainly partisan. Partisan doesn't mean "I disagree with this." But whatever it is and whatever your opinion of it, it's hard to make a cogent argument that it belongs as a banner on the front page of a programming language website.
- radlad 5y ago
  > I mean they certainly have a partisan stance re: prisons and incarceration. I did not realize that providing counsel to inmates was a partisan issue. > But whatever it is and whatever your opinion of it, it's hard to make a cogent argument that it belongs as a banner on the front page of a programming language website. This is unrelated to my comment.
  - pc86 5y ago
    Unrelated to your comment maybe, but not the thread. It's certainly germane whether your choose to acknowledge it or not. I'm clearly not referring to "providing counsel" and it takes only 10-15 seconds of reading their homepage to see policy positions that any reasonable person could consider partisan. But nice straw man. Let me know when you're interested in an actual discussion and not this nonsense.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

DrBenCarson 5y ago

> Providing legal representation to those who may have been denied a fair trial This is partisan?

throwaway894345 5y ago
Obviously I was talking about "Black Lives Matter".
- badRNG 5y ago
  Generally speaking, organizations providing statements in favor of human rights have been in fairly safe territory. Historically, businesses supporting desegregation, the Civil Rights Act, LGBTQ inclusivity, or other human rights issues have been either unharmed or benefitted from the stance, even if there's no material contribution to the cause, and even if the fight for human rights is partisan (it almost always is.)
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    No one disputes the human rights of black people. What is disputed is whether police killings are racially motivated or whether American police are too often heavy handed irrespective of race (94% of Americans believe that some police reform is needed[0]). Of course, virtually everyone understands that blacks are killed disproportionately by police, but that doesn't imply a racial motive when we know for fact that there are disparities in the commission of violent crime, rates of police interaction, etc which could also explain the disparity in shootings. And of course, the particular remedial policies depend significantly on the answers to these questions. In particular, people who identify strongly with BLM are much more likely to advocate defunding or abolishing the police (but are also the least happy that inadequate policing led citizens to defend themselves during various BLM riots in 2020, including the Rittenhouse case). Further still, there's a lot of controversy over whether violence or non-violence are the appropriate way to seek the reforms one desires, with virtually the whole of the media downplaying or actively justifying political violence (even invoking MLK's "riots are the language of the oppressed" out of context[1]) right up until January 6th, 2021 when political violence abruptly and rightly regained its "reprehensible" designation. Further still, contrary to the media portrait, a majority of black Americans don't support violent protest or the abolition or defunding of police--like most other Americans, they want sensible police reform[0]. So yes, BLM is quite controversial in American politics for reasons which have little to do with clear cut advocacy for human rights. [0]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/315962/americans-say-policing-needs-major-changes.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/315962/americans-say-policing-n... [1]: One of the more memorable examples was CNN adding the "fiery but mostly peaceful" caption as a journalist sporting a gas mask reported against a backdrop of a dozen burning vehicles.

dang 5y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29307409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29307409.