4 ms·

...I think many people would disagree with you about Linux. And perhaps GCC as well.

whimsicalism 5y ago
Yeah it's comical because Linux has so obviously driven a lot of people away from kernel development. Tech is male-skewed, and OSS more so, but Linux kernel dev is even then still at the far end of the gender disparity spectrum.
- blindmute 5y ago
  Are you aware of how many people have been driven away from Rust because of their community? I've never seen people talking about avoiding Linux even 1/10th as much as they talk about avoiding Rust. It's entirely due to the culture; developers don't like a culture in which a programming language needs a multi-member moderation team (who resigns because they can't punish people 100% of the time).
- throwaway2077 5y ago
  >gender sex - sure, but gender? we got plenty of females in OSS!
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    More so in Rust than in many other communities was my perception. Far more trans women per capita in that community than Linux kernel dev. Still a general underrep of women. e: Oh I see - your comment wasn't in good faith at all.
    - throwaway2077 5y ago
      >More so in Rust than in many other communities was my perception not just yours :)
- emptycan 5y ago
  > Yeah it's comical because Linux has so obviously driven a lot of people away from kernel development. I hear this "a lot" very often, but then it seems to be from people who have no real interest in technical work of kernel/OS core development. Linux is not the only way to scratch your itch for interest in low-level system dev. Like, this is just personal experience, but I have heard this on the order of 50-100 times: someone parroting how toxic Linux kernel dev is because of drama they heard -- but then you kind of dig a little bit and see what kinds of software stuff interests them, what do they work on -- probably only once or twice has it been anything embedded, hardware related, close to the metal. I would need compelling evidence to change my opinion that most of the complainers have no interest in the work being done by the community they are complaining about -- and I am fully aware that a number of people have departed Linux development, but we are talking about a tiny number of the thousands of contributors over the years -- you can't please everyone. The hobby OS, emulation and demo scene is a pretty good indicator for "natural"* gender breakdown. These tend to be tight, tiny communities or often lone wolves working on projects. It is male dominated. This can't be explained by any systemic or community gatekeeping - because there is no system nor any mandatory community for participation or distribution. Nothing prevents anyone from putting their work out there. * I am not discounting there may be other systemic reasons that set up this condition - but it has to be societal conditions that are in place in early childhood -- something that happens a bit before one considers contributing to the Linux kernel.
  - najtdale 5y ago
    Agree completly. I would add that not just they are not interested...they have nowhere near enough skills to do anything in the kernel / os development space
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      You know nothing about me and are just making wild inference and conjecture.

Yeah it's comical because Linux has so obviously driven a lot of people away from kernel development. Tech is male-skewed, and OSS more so, but Linux kernel dev is even then still at the far end of the gender disparity spectrum.

blindmute 5y ago
Are you aware of how many people have been driven away from Rust because of their community? I've never seen people talking about avoiding Linux even 1/10th as much as they talk about avoiding Rust. It's entirely due to the culture; developers don't like a culture in which a programming language needs a multi-member moderation team (who resigns because they can't punish people 100% of the time).
throwaway2077 5y ago
>gender sex - sure, but gender? we got plenty of females in OSS!
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  More so in Rust than in many other communities was my perception. Far more trans women per capita in that community than Linux kernel dev. Still a general underrep of women. e: Oh I see - your comment wasn't in good faith at all.
  - throwaway2077 5y ago
    >More so in Rust than in many other communities was my perception not just yours :)
emptycan 5y ago
> Yeah it's comical because Linux has so obviously driven a lot of people away from kernel development. I hear this "a lot" very often, but then it seems to be from people who have no real interest in technical work of kernel/OS core development. Linux is not the only way to scratch your itch for interest in low-level system dev. Like, this is just personal experience, but I have heard this on the order of 50-100 times: someone parroting how toxic Linux kernel dev is because of drama they heard -- but then you kind of dig a little bit and see what kinds of software stuff interests them, what do they work on -- probably only once or twice has it been anything embedded, hardware related, close to the metal. I would need compelling evidence to change my opinion that most of the complainers have no interest in the work being done by the community they are complaining about -- and I am fully aware that a number of people have departed Linux development, but we are talking about a tiny number of the thousands of contributors over the years -- you can't please everyone. The hobby OS, emulation and demo scene is a pretty good indicator for "natural"* gender breakdown. These tend to be tight, tiny communities or often lone wolves working on projects. It is male dominated. This can't be explained by any systemic or community gatekeeping - because there is no system nor any mandatory community for participation or distribution. Nothing prevents anyone from putting their work out there. * I am not discounting there may be other systemic reasons that set up this condition - but it has to be societal conditions that are in place in early childhood -- something that happens a bit before one considers contributing to the Linux kernel.
- najtdale 5y ago
  Agree completly. I would add that not just they are not interested...they have nowhere near enough skills to do anything in the kernel / os development space
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    You know nothing about me and are just making wild inference and conjecture.