5 ms·

Hipsters and overpriced consumer electronics?

by bsphil 15y ago

shantanubala 15y ago
Or people who like Apple products, and products that are priced at levels people are willing to pay.
- dmix 15y ago
  The only way to win the "Apple is hipster/overpriced" game is to not play it. Just ignore it and carry on.
rhygar 15y ago
I'm starting to wonder where this meme comes from. I would hardly call owning a product produced by the most successful company in the world and a household brand being a "hipster". Apple products are not really overpriced. Try buying a capable iPad-like tablet for less than $499. Try buying something like the 11" Macbook Air for less than $999. The iPhone 3GS is $49 with a two year contract. Is there a rebel without a cause sensibility about hating Apple?
- mkr-hn 15y ago
  It's no mystery. People react like this to the kind of marketing Apple uses and the culture it encourages.
- skermes 15y ago
  To expand on mrk-hn's comment, I don't think the comparison is entirely without merit. From what I can tell, a lot of the scorn directed at hipsters (or at least the "hipster" archetype/strawperson) stems from fact (or perception) that they value cultural artifacts based on the social status that they can leverage those artifacts for, rather than for any intrinsic value they might have. Compare someone who tells their friends about a band because they like the lyrics of that one song they listened to all the time in high school, vs someone who tells their friends about the same band because they want to be the first to do so, gaining some reputation in the process. (Obviously there are more subtle gradients of behaviors and motivations here, but lets stick to broad strokes.) Apple's branding and advertising tends to exhibit a similar focus on how their products will improve your status, rather than on the capabilities of the actual hard/software. Consider the 1984 Mac ad, or the iPod silhouette ads. They weren't telling you to buy an iPod because it could hold more songs, they were telling you that if you had an iPod, you could be one of the happy beautiful people dancing on a soundstage. Compare that to a run of GeneriCo (seriously, I've seen it like ten times but I can't recall the brand) ads that have been running for back-to-school PCs on Hulu. The whole thing is a laundry list of features without any context for why they're going to make your life better. And there's a creepy guy hanging on the wall of a girl's dorm room. They haven't even grokked JWZ's level of marketing savvy (http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html) let alone Apple's. Collide that with some long-standing geek ethics (function over form, a hard-won appreciation for the inner beauty of seemingly ugly tech, etc) and a backlash isn't all that surprising. The hipster thing is just convenient. Hating on them is already a popular internet pastime, so throwing that (as above, somewhat spiritually appropriate) label on Apple is a nice shorthand for showing how much you don't care about how big bezels should be or whether your corners are rounded. It doesn't help that there are a fairly substantial core group of Apple devotees who engage in some absurdly irrational behaviors for status-seeking reasons (which is pretty much what "hipsterism" is all about). Why, our enraged geek wants to know, would anyone stand in line at an Apple store for hours for a new iPhone? THAT IS WHAT THE INTERNET AND FEDEX IS FOR SMAAASH So, yeah. Extending that to accusations of overpriced-ness is left as an exercise for the reader.
  - guillaume_a 15y ago
    >Apple's branding and advertising tends to exhibit a similar focus on how their products will improve your status, rather than on the capabilities of the actual hard/software. When I look at Apple's ads (especially the latest crop of iPad ones), I see them showing families getting closer, students learning better, people enjoying their pastimes, etc. In a nutshell, technology enhancing peoples' lives and not just technology for the sake of it. That's quite different from just "improving social status" in my opinion.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 15y ago
    Back when the iPod came out, MP3 players were all about features. A pure feature for feature comparison of an iPod vs other players makes the iPod look bad. They were probably trying to play the social status card. This seemed to have changed when the iPod actually got new features like the camera, the clip. But I forget all the campaigns. Let's look at the ad campaigns for the Mac and iOS devices. There was the Switch campaign where they had people talking about why they switched and how it made their lives better. The "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" campaign which was a bit abstract but talked about what the Mac could do. And the iOS ads, all of which show you real life functions of the iPhone and iPad. The iPod Touch is being marketed as a game console and they are showing real games that you can play. Contrast this to the current crop of Samsung commercials. All the ones I have seen on TV do not show the product in any useful way, do not show what you can do with their products and claim that you will be better for buying their product. They are all very abstract. The Acer Iconia ads are much better but aren't very well made. The Droid Does campaign was pretty good but a little impersonal. But there was also their initial iDon't ad which told you nothing about their device but subtly referenced their competitor. Then there was that Droid X space thing which was supposed to be what exactly? And then the Droid commercials where they try and show something that the phone can do and BTW, you will turn into some super awesome android guy. So in recent times, Apple has not been playing the social status card so much. Also, geeks are just as vulnerable to the social status message. Just look at this "Apple is over priced and it is all about marketing" meme. Geeks are just seeking increased social status in a different group. But they want it just as much as the Apple crowd.
  - zmmmmm 15y ago
- kayoone 15y ago
  iMacs and mac minis are overpriced. Of course the high price also comes from using mobile components but still, you can get a Desktop PC with the same specs as an iMac (including a 27 inch screen) for several hundred $ less than an iMac.
  - ovi256 15y ago
    But is it going to be an all-in-one aluminium case ? No ? Oh so it's not really apples-to-apples then.
sunchild 15y ago
The fact that you feel the need to disparage a man who, as part of a two-man team, charted the course for personal computing in the 1980's, workstation computing and CGI in the 1990's, and then went on to build the world's most valuable consumer electronics company – says more about you than it says about Steve Jobs. You might not like people who care about aesthetics, but I doubt you'd fare particularly well in a comparison test vs. Steve f-ing Jobs. Talk about a lack of perspective!
- BasDirks 15y ago
  His comment is not about Steve Jobs. It's about this ridiculous tendency of people to form cults around people.
- rewind 15y ago
  I don't agree with the comment you're replying to, but if we all had to be equals to the icons we criticize... the online world of commentary, discussion, and blogs would cease to exist. I'm not American, but it would be like not being able to criticize the president without someone saying "see how you'd fare in a comparison against Barack O-f-ing-Bama".
- angryasian 15y ago
  in all honesty I think wozniak deserves more credit and bill gates did more to get affordable home computers to the mass than jobs did. But I have no doubts Jobs would of been successful regardless.
  - sunchild 15y ago
    That is extremely debatable.
    - angryasian 15y ago
      which part is debatable ?
      - 15y ago
haydenevans 15y ago
@bsphil Try being human

Hipsters and overpriced consumer electronics?

by bsphil 15y ago

Hipsters and overpriced consumer electronics?

shantanubala 15y ago

Or people who like Apple products, and products that are priced at levels people are willing to pay.

dmix 15y ago
The only way to win the "Apple is hipster/overpriced" game is to not play it. Just ignore it and carry on.

rhygar 15y ago

I'm starting to wonder where this meme comes from. I would hardly call owning a product produced by the most successful company in the world and a household brand being a "hipster". Apple products are not really overpriced. Try buying a capable iPad-like tablet for less than $499. Try buying something like the 11" Macbook Air for less than $999. The iPhone 3GS is $49 with a two year contract. Is there a rebel without a cause sensibility about hating Apple?

mkr-hn 15y ago
It's no mystery. People react like this to the kind of marketing Apple uses and the culture it encourages.
skermes 15y ago
To expand on mrk-hn's comment, I don't think the comparison is entirely without merit. From what I can tell, a lot of the scorn directed at hipsters (or at least the "hipster" archetype/strawperson) stems from fact (or perception) that they value cultural artifacts based on the social status that they can leverage those artifacts for, rather than for any intrinsic value they might have. Compare someone who tells their friends about a band because they like the lyrics of that one song they listened to all the time in high school, vs someone who tells their friends about the same band because they want to be the first to do so, gaining some reputation in the process. (Obviously there are more subtle gradients of behaviors and motivations here, but lets stick to broad strokes.) Apple's branding and advertising tends to exhibit a similar focus on how their products will improve your status, rather than on the capabilities of the actual hard/software. Consider the 1984 Mac ad, or the iPod silhouette ads. They weren't telling you to buy an iPod because it could hold more songs, they were telling you that if you had an iPod, you could be one of the happy beautiful people dancing on a soundstage. Compare that to a run of GeneriCo (seriously, I've seen it like ten times but I can't recall the brand) ads that have been running for back-to-school PCs on Hulu. The whole thing is a laundry list of features without any context for why they're going to make your life better. And there's a creepy guy hanging on the wall of a girl's dorm room. They haven't even grokked JWZ's level of marketing savvy (http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html) let alone Apple's. Collide that with some long-standing geek ethics (function over form, a hard-won appreciation for the inner beauty of seemingly ugly tech, etc) and a backlash isn't all that surprising. The hipster thing is just convenient. Hating on them is already a popular internet pastime, so throwing that (as above, somewhat spiritually appropriate) label on Apple is a nice shorthand for showing how much you don't care about how big bezels should be or whether your corners are rounded. It doesn't help that there are a fairly substantial core group of Apple devotees who engage in some absurdly irrational behaviors for status-seeking reasons (which is pretty much what "hipsterism" is all about). Why, our enraged geek wants to know, would anyone stand in line at an Apple store for hours for a new iPhone? THAT IS WHAT THE INTERNET AND FEDEX IS FOR SMAAASH So, yeah. Extending that to accusations of overpriced-ness is left as an exercise for the reader.
- guillaume_a 15y ago
  >Apple's branding and advertising tends to exhibit a similar focus on how their products will improve your status, rather than on the capabilities of the actual hard/software. When I look at Apple's ads (especially the latest crop of iPad ones), I see them showing families getting closer, students learning better, people enjoying their pastimes, etc. In a nutshell, technology enhancing peoples' lives and not just technology for the sake of it. That's quite different from just "improving social status" in my opinion.
- 2muchcoffeeman 15y ago
  Back when the iPod came out, MP3 players were all about features. A pure feature for feature comparison of an iPod vs other players makes the iPod look bad. They were probably trying to play the social status card. This seemed to have changed when the iPod actually got new features like the camera, the clip. But I forget all the campaigns. Let's look at the ad campaigns for the Mac and iOS devices. There was the Switch campaign where they had people talking about why they switched and how it made their lives better. The "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" campaign which was a bit abstract but talked about what the Mac could do. And the iOS ads, all of which show you real life functions of the iPhone and iPad. The iPod Touch is being marketed as a game console and they are showing real games that you can play. Contrast this to the current crop of Samsung commercials. All the ones I have seen on TV do not show the product in any useful way, do not show what you can do with their products and claim that you will be better for buying their product. They are all very abstract. The Acer Iconia ads are much better but aren't very well made. The Droid Does campaign was pretty good but a little impersonal. But there was also their initial iDon't ad which told you nothing about their device but subtly referenced their competitor. Then there was that Droid X space thing which was supposed to be what exactly? And then the Droid commercials where they try and show something that the phone can do and BTW, you will turn into some super awesome android guy. So in recent times, Apple has not been playing the social status card so much. Also, geeks are just as vulnerable to the social status message. Just look at this "Apple is over priced and it is all about marketing" meme. Geeks are just seeking increased social status in a different group. But they want it just as much as the Apple crowd.
- zmmmmm 15y ago
kayoone 15y ago
iMacs and mac minis are overpriced. Of course the high price also comes from using mobile components but still, you can get a Desktop PC with the same specs as an iMac (including a 27 inch screen) for several hundred $ less than an iMac.
- ovi256 15y ago
  But is it going to be an all-in-one aluminium case ? No ? Oh so it's not really apples-to-apples then.

sunchild 15y ago

The fact that you feel the need to disparage a man who, as part of a two-man team, charted the course for personal computing in the 1980's, workstation computing and CGI in the 1990's, and then went on to build the world's most valuable consumer electronics company – says more about you than it says about Steve Jobs. You might not like people who care about aesthetics, but I doubt you'd fare particularly well in a comparison test vs. Steve f-ing Jobs. Talk about a lack of perspective!

BasDirks 15y ago
His comment is not about Steve Jobs. It's about this ridiculous tendency of people to form cults around people.
rewind 15y ago
I don't agree with the comment you're replying to, but if we all had to be equals to the icons we criticize... the online world of commentary, discussion, and blogs would cease to exist. I'm not American, but it would be like not being able to criticize the president without someone saying "see how you'd fare in a comparison against Barack O-f-ing-Bama".
angryasian 15y ago
in all honesty I think wozniak deserves more credit and bill gates did more to get affordable home computers to the mass than jobs did. But I have no doubts Jobs would of been successful regardless.
- sunchild 15y ago
  That is extremely debatable.
  - angryasian 15y ago
    which part is debatable ?
    - 15y ago

haydenevans 15y ago

@bsphil Try being human