4 ms·

> I don't want to be caught in another cloud and pay monthly for something I don't want to use. Well... isn't that the advantage of subscription? If you stop u

> I don't want to be caught in another cloud and pay monthly for something I don't want to use. Well... isn't that the advantage of subscription? If you stop using it you don't have to pay monthly for it anymore.

akiselev 5y ago
That's not how recurring billing works. You have to remember to cancel those, which is half the business model.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  You have to cancel something that you don't want to pay? Ok I'm not sure that's the huge hardship you think it is.
  - HighlandSpring 5y ago
    The larger point is that this is kind of like how a gym wants paying customers that don't show up too often or a flight operator over sells seats betting some flyers don't make it. It's a business that is subsidised by the ever increasing busyness of life and rising rates of executive dysfunction (there's a population that struggles to keep up with admin tasks on a neurological level and it's biologically determined) They have an incentive to get as many paying customers as possible but not necessarily turn them into engaged users. It can come too close to a racket depending on how discerning of a consumer you are
ekianjo 5y ago
and you end up with a brick instead of usable hardware?
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  If you're not using it why do you care if it's usable?
  - fsflover 5y ago
    Not using the subscription does not mean not using the device.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      If you read everyone else's comments, you can use it without the cloud service.
      - ekianjo 5y ago
        for now. Ever heard of OTA updates?
      - fsflover 5y ago
        But can I be sure that an update can't change that?
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        Don't install updates then! I don't understand this line of logic - you don't want ongoing service but you're using the ongoing service to get updates?
        fsflover 5y ago
        Do you suggest to also avoid security updates? Does not sound like a good advice. For this reason, I prefer devices running exclusively free software. I can be sure that I will always own them and that security updates will never end, if the device is still used by the community. Debian clearly separates security and non-security-related updates. I wish more projects did that.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        I thought you didn't want ongoing service? You want them to keep working on updates for your device but you don't want to keep paying them? > I can be sure that I will always own them and that security updates will never end, if the device is still used by the community. How do you ensure that someone else will write a security patch for you?
robbedpeter 5y ago
If it's clear and consensual, and not a means of endlessly extracting money for no value. SaaS is almost always rent seeking and brings no value to a consumer. Almost.
- eatonphil 5y ago
  You either have a SaaS or a support contract. What makes SaaS any worse or different conceptually or ultimately than a support contract?
  - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
    The fact that products generally still work when your support contract runs out.
  - andrepew 5y ago
    Usually you don't need a support contract for continued use of the software you bought. I have old versions of a few applications and am happy with their current functionality. I can choose to not have a support contract and still use them. If I encounter problems later, I can choose to pay more for the latest.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      > Usually you don't need a support contract for continued use of the software you bought. I wouldn't want to run unmaintained software these days - security nightmare.
  - rchaud 5y ago
    I've bought Microsoft Office CDs and DVDs for a fixed, one-time price. No support contract needed. I mean what's changed in Excel or Word that affects the home user? Same for Adobe Suite. Used to be available for a one-time fee. That they have both shifted to subscription models suggests it's a move designed to please equity analysts rather than any kind of added value for the customer.

akiselev 5y ago

That's not how recurring billing works. You have to remember to cancel those, which is half the business model.

chrisseaton 5y ago
You have to cancel something that you don't want to pay? Ok I'm not sure that's the huge hardship you think it is.
- HighlandSpring 5y ago
  The larger point is that this is kind of like how a gym wants paying customers that don't show up too often or a flight operator over sells seats betting some flyers don't make it. It's a business that is subsidised by the ever increasing busyness of life and rising rates of executive dysfunction (there's a population that struggles to keep up with admin tasks on a neurological level and it's biologically determined) They have an incentive to get as many paying customers as possible but not necessarily turn them into engaged users. It can come too close to a racket depending on how discerning of a consumer you are

ekianjo 5y ago

and you end up with a brick instead of usable hardware?

chrisseaton 5y ago
If you're not using it why do you care if it's usable?
- fsflover 5y ago
  Not using the subscription does not mean not using the device.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    If you read everyone else's comments, you can use it without the cloud service.
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      for now. Ever heard of OTA updates?
    - fsflover 5y ago
      But can I be sure that an update can't change that?
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        Don't install updates then! I don't understand this line of logic - you don't want ongoing service but you're using the ongoing service to get updates?
        fsflover 5y ago
        Do you suggest to also avoid security updates? Does not sound like a good advice. For this reason, I prefer devices running exclusively free software. I can be sure that I will always own them and that security updates will never end, if the device is still used by the community. Debian clearly separates security and non-security-related updates. I wish more projects did that.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        I thought you didn't want ongoing service? You want them to keep working on updates for your device but you don't want to keep paying them? > I can be sure that I will always own them and that security updates will never end, if the device is still used by the community. How do you ensure that someone else will write a security patch for you?

robbedpeter 5y ago

If it's clear and consensual, and not a means of endlessly extracting money for no value. SaaS is almost always rent seeking and brings no value to a consumer. Almost.

eatonphil 5y ago
You either have a SaaS or a support contract. What makes SaaS any worse or different conceptually or ultimately than a support contract?
- ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  The fact that products generally still work when your support contract runs out.
- andrepew 5y ago
  Usually you don't need a support contract for continued use of the software you bought. I have old versions of a few applications and am happy with their current functionality. I can choose to not have a support contract and still use them. If I encounter problems later, I can choose to pay more for the latest.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > Usually you don't need a support contract for continued use of the software you bought. I wouldn't want to run unmaintained software these days - security nightmare.
- rchaud 5y ago
  I've bought Microsoft Office CDs and DVDs for a fixed, one-time price. No support contract needed. I mean what's changed in Excel or Word that affects the home user? Same for Adobe Suite. Used to be available for a one-time fee. That they have both shifted to subscription models suggests it's a move designed to please equity analysts rather than any kind of added value for the customer.