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I had to look up a 'center turning lane'. Is this[1] it? That looks incredibly dangerous. [1]: https://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-Center-Turning-Lane https://www.

I had to look up a 'center turning lane'. Is this[1] it? That looks incredibly dangerous. [1]: https://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-Center-Turning-Lane https://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-Center-Turning-Lane

sokoloff 5y ago
It is, but they’re more common on one travel lane each way streets. When evaluating the danger of such a design, you have to consider the alternatives. You’re probably considering 3/4 head on collisions from drivers misjudging the turn. Those happen, but how many rear-end collisions are avoided?
- wffurr 5y ago
  The center turning lane isn't there to avoid rear end collisions, which are only problematic due to too-high speeds in a commercial area. They are about improving throughput. What makes them dangerous, particularly in the five lane configuration, is the poor visibility for crossing uncontrolled intersections of multiple traffic lanes.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Center turning with five lanes? wow, that's crazy...
    - wffurr 5y ago
      The examples in the article show anywhere from 5 to 7 lanes. The outermost lanes in one of the 7-lane examples are parking lanes. There's a stroad on Staten Island that scares the crap out of me - Hylan Blvd. I have family that live on it. It's six lanes with a median, but sometimes and in certain places parking is allowed in the outermost lanes. So you can suddenly come up on parked traffic but only at certain times of day in certain places. It's totally insane. To get in the driveway, you have to loop the block to the closest light, wait for the green, and then drive halfway down the block and back-in before the light changes and traffic starts up. It's quite stressful.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        Over here we have that, well something similar, outside of towns and cities for one lane. In cities max 2 lanes, with a 50 kmh speed limit. And those are rare, street cross section have traffic lights and those from parking lots are scary enough. And slow enough, it is sometimes faster to not cross lanes and just turn around at the next traffic light.
    - tomjakubowski 5y ago
      Commonplace in suburban Chicago.
wffurr 5y ago
That's exactly it, except with businesses with parking lots on each side and lots of cars pulling in and out. Also a 55 mph speed limit that's routinely ignored unless there's enough traffic to slow everyone down. Colloquially called a "suicide lane".
- mcv 5y ago
  The way it's shown on that page, it looks like every part of that lane can be used in both directions. In Netherland we do have separate lanes to turn left, but only before an intersection, and only to be used in the direction towards that intersection. People turning left in the other direction will be on the other side of the intersection. There will be lines on the road directing you where you're supposed to go. The left-turning lane will have a very limited length, only existing near the intersection that it's for. Also, I think there are usually traffic lights ensuring safe crossing for left-turners. Having just a general all-purpose two-directional left-turning lane looks incomprehensibly dangerous to me.
jmacc1 5y ago
A common thing I see drivers in my city do is pull into the center turning lane and then merge into their intended lane when doing a left turn. It's super illegal afaik, but I see it done all the time, I've even seen police do it. Of course, the alternative to this maneuver is waiting a very long time until both lanes are clear before turning because the stroad you're turning left on is extremely congested (though not extraordinarily congested in my cities case)

I had to look up a 'center turning lane'. Is this[1] it? That looks incredibly dangerous. [1]: https://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-Center-Turning-Lane https://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-Center-Turning-Lane

sokoloff 5y ago

It is, but they’re more common on one travel lane each way streets. When evaluating the danger of such a design, you have to consider the alternatives. You’re probably considering 3/4 head on collisions from drivers misjudging the turn. Those happen, but how many rear-end collisions are avoided?

wffurr 5y ago
The center turning lane isn't there to avoid rear end collisions, which are only problematic due to too-high speeds in a commercial area. They are about improving throughput. What makes them dangerous, particularly in the five lane configuration, is the poor visibility for crossing uncontrolled intersections of multiple traffic lanes.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Center turning with five lanes? wow, that's crazy...
  - wffurr 5y ago
    The examples in the article show anywhere from 5 to 7 lanes. The outermost lanes in one of the 7-lane examples are parking lanes. There's a stroad on Staten Island that scares the crap out of me - Hylan Blvd. I have family that live on it. It's six lanes with a median, but sometimes and in certain places parking is allowed in the outermost lanes. So you can suddenly come up on parked traffic but only at certain times of day in certain places. It's totally insane. To get in the driveway, you have to loop the block to the closest light, wait for the green, and then drive halfway down the block and back-in before the light changes and traffic starts up. It's quite stressful.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Over here we have that, well something similar, outside of towns and cities for one lane. In cities max 2 lanes, with a 50 kmh speed limit. And those are rare, street cross section have traffic lights and those from parking lots are scary enough. And slow enough, it is sometimes faster to not cross lanes and just turn around at the next traffic light.
  - tomjakubowski 5y ago
    Commonplace in suburban Chicago.

wffurr 5y ago

That's exactly it, except with businesses with parking lots on each side and lots of cars pulling in and out. Also a 55 mph speed limit that's routinely ignored unless there's enough traffic to slow everyone down. Colloquially called a "suicide lane".

mcv 5y ago
The way it's shown on that page, it looks like every part of that lane can be used in both directions. In Netherland we do have separate lanes to turn left, but only before an intersection, and only to be used in the direction towards that intersection. People turning left in the other direction will be on the other side of the intersection. There will be lines on the road directing you where you're supposed to go. The left-turning lane will have a very limited length, only existing near the intersection that it's for. Also, I think there are usually traffic lights ensuring safe crossing for left-turners. Having just a general all-purpose two-directional left-turning lane looks incomprehensibly dangerous to me.

jmacc1 5y ago

A common thing I see drivers in my city do is pull into the center turning lane and then merge into their intended lane when doing a left turn. It's super illegal afaik, but I see it done all the time, I've even seen police do it. Of course, the alternative to this maneuver is waiting a very long time until both lanes are clear before turning because the stroad you're turning left on is extremely congested (though not extraordinarily congested in my cities case)