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This is a very toxic exchange. All I was saying is to give a try to his interviews. Think on your own and make up your mind. I really don’t sense any fascist to

This is a very toxic exchange. All I was saying is to give a try to his interviews. Think on your own and make up your mind. I really don’t sense any fascist tones. I guess I’m interested in the intellectual aspects, not political. Peter cuts through the BS that conformity teaches me. That was the point of the original comment - think like a contrarian. FWIW with regards to politics, Peter isn't quite a Republican or a Democrat. He is mostly Liberatarian. Often his arguments include all 3 sides and he makes a case for liberatarian. He also supports liberal policies as well as conservative policies, but the approach towards it is quite fascinating to me.

jacobolus 5y ago
What Thiel means by “libertarian” is that he wants to be able to do whatever he wants without anyone constraining his actions in any way; here “libertarian” is more or less a euphemism for “antisocial narcissist”. He wants to bring his preferred racist, authoritarian, reactionary government to unchecked power so they can dismantle those parts of the state or any other social institutions which protect the disempowered from corporate abuses, without any care for the rights and lives of millions of less wealthy and connected people that get trampled in the process. What we are talking about here: corrupting elected officials, the civil service, and the judiciary; undermining elections and nullifying their results; diverting public money and property into private hands; erecting barriers to competitive markets to entrench the power of the already powerful; turning law enforcement against peaceful dissenters; encouraging the use of private political violence and threats of political violence as a tool to suppress dissent; etc.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  I've probably heard every single interview of his - I completely disagree with your charaterization or rather mischaracterization of him. If anything he wants to bring prosperity by various means and lift the lower classes into a productive society. Absolutely zero hint of any white supremacy or racism. Can you point me to a thing he wrote or spoke to support your accusations? I almost guarantee, you won't be able to. What have you been reading?
  - jacobolus 5y ago
    I don’t know whether he ever said anything that was carelessly blatantly racist: I haven’t been hanging on his every word, and he’s somewhat cautious and not an idiot. But he keeps dumping millions of dollars to support nativist white supremacist liars like Kris Kobach and Donald Trump. In this election cycle his biggest beneficiaries are all-in on building a border wall with Mexico and stripping rights from Latin American immigrants, preventing immigration from Muslim-majority nations, harassing Chinese living in the US, violating the sovereignty of indigenous American tribes, preventing or rendering useless the votes of Latinos and African Americans, etc. I don’t know if Thiel is personally a racist. I think it’s more likely he’s just an opportunist angling for personal profit who sees supporting racists and racist policies as a winning bet. A web search turns up https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/what-is-it-about-peter-thiel https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/wh... – that probably does a better job than anyone will manage in a tiny comment here of probing Thiel’s motives.
    - systemvoltage 5y ago
      I was asking for a direct quote, not a left wing magazine article that is biased. You owe it to yourself to listen to him!
  - jmeister 5y ago
    Forget it Jake, it’s Chinatown. It’s impossible to discuss non-left politics on HN.
unclebucknasty 5y ago
>This is a very toxic exchange Lies are toxic. Facts are objective. The American right has taken a sharp turn towards authoritarianism and frank fascism. Disinformation, vitriol and violent political repression as primary political tactics have moved to the center of that party. So, I took exception to the absurd assertion that Thiel's "side" is not the oppressive one. Still, I wasn't speaking about Thiel as much as the party he largely supports and their place in the current political landscape. But, since you mention it, the proposition that he has flexible political views posits him as some sort of centrist, which he decidedly is not. His positions land him squarely in support of what the right has morphed into and, indeed, he has played a role in that transformation. I think you are perhaps not familiar with some of his ideas and activities, or the company he keeps. You should also know that Libertarianism has likewise been hijacked. It is not some purist movement in the traditional libertarian sense. It is now a vector for destabilization and galvanizing support for anti-democratic ideology and activity--to include dismantling all regulatory regimes that might check the power of people like him or their organizations. >I guess I’m interested in the intellectual aspects, not political Simply listening to Thiel (or anyone) purely for their ideas on anything, when I find them morally repugnant, is not something I can stomach, nor do I think it wise.

jacobolus 5y ago

What Thiel means by “libertarian” is that he wants to be able to do whatever he wants without anyone constraining his actions in any way; here “libertarian” is more or less a euphemism for “antisocial narcissist”. He wants to bring his preferred racist, authoritarian, reactionary government to unchecked power so they can dismantle those parts of the state or any other social institutions which protect the disempowered from corporate abuses, without any care for the rights and lives of millions of less wealthy and connected people that get trampled in the process. What we are talking about here: corrupting elected officials, the civil service, and the judiciary; undermining elections and nullifying their results; diverting public money and property into private hands; erecting barriers to competitive markets to entrench the power of the already powerful; turning law enforcement against peaceful dissenters; encouraging the use of private political violence and threats of political violence as a tool to suppress dissent; etc.

systemvoltage 5y ago
I've probably heard every single interview of his - I completely disagree with your charaterization or rather mischaracterization of him. If anything he wants to bring prosperity by various means and lift the lower classes into a productive society. Absolutely zero hint of any white supremacy or racism. Can you point me to a thing he wrote or spoke to support your accusations? I almost guarantee, you won't be able to. What have you been reading?
- jacobolus 5y ago
  I don’t know whether he ever said anything that was carelessly blatantly racist: I haven’t been hanging on his every word, and he’s somewhat cautious and not an idiot. But he keeps dumping millions of dollars to support nativist white supremacist liars like Kris Kobach and Donald Trump. In this election cycle his biggest beneficiaries are all-in on building a border wall with Mexico and stripping rights from Latin American immigrants, preventing immigration from Muslim-majority nations, harassing Chinese living in the US, violating the sovereignty of indigenous American tribes, preventing or rendering useless the votes of Latinos and African Americans, etc. I don’t know if Thiel is personally a racist. I think it’s more likely he’s just an opportunist angling for personal profit who sees supporting racists and racist policies as a winning bet. A web search turns up https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/what-is-it-about-peter-thiel https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/wh... – that probably does a better job than anyone will manage in a tiny comment here of probing Thiel’s motives.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    I was asking for a direct quote, not a left wing magazine article that is biased. You owe it to yourself to listen to him!
- jmeister 5y ago
  Forget it Jake, it’s Chinatown. It’s impossible to discuss non-left politics on HN.

unclebucknasty 5y ago

>This is a very toxic exchange Lies are toxic. Facts are objective. The American right has taken a sharp turn towards authoritarianism and frank fascism. Disinformation, vitriol and violent political repression as primary political tactics have moved to the center of that party. So, I took exception to the absurd assertion that Thiel's "side" is not the oppressive one. Still, I wasn't speaking about Thiel as much as the party he largely supports and their place in the current political landscape. But, since you mention it, the proposition that he has flexible political views posits him as some sort of centrist, which he decidedly is not. His positions land him squarely in support of what the right has morphed into and, indeed, he has played a role in that transformation. I think you are perhaps not familiar with some of his ideas and activities, or the company he keeps. You should also know that Libertarianism has likewise been hijacked. It is not some purist movement in the traditional libertarian sense. It is now a vector for destabilization and galvanizing support for anti-democratic ideology and activity--to include dismantling all regulatory regimes that might check the power of people like him or their organizations. >I guess I’m interested in the intellectual aspects, not political Simply listening to Thiel (or anyone) purely for their ideas on anything, when I find them morally repugnant, is not something I can stomach, nor do I think it wise.