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Octopi is not the correct plural. Octopus is of greek origin, not latin. Thus, its greek plural is octopodes. And thus, since we don't tend to use greek plurals
by ryan_j_naughton 5y ago
Octopi is not the correct plural. Octopus is of greek origin, not latin. Thus, its greek plural is octopodes. And thus, since we don't tend to use greek plurals in english, the other proper plural is octopuses.
Octopi is what's known as a hypercorrection. "A hypercorrection is non-standard use of language that results from the over-application of a perceived rule of language-usage prescription. A speaker or writer who produces a hypercorrection generally believes through a misunderstanding of such rules that the form is more "correct", standard, or otherwise preferable, often combined with a desire to appear formal."[1]
Now, you will find octopi in the dictionary, but only because so many people have engaged in this hypercorrection that it has become widespread and dictionaries reflect common usage.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection
- elcano 5y agoI wonder if the trend of using the 'Latinx' term falls under the hypercorrection definition or there's something else to describe it. I'm not passing judgement on the inclusiveness intention, but the English word for Latino and Latina is just Latin, which doesn't have gender. There's no need to mix linguistics with algebra and add a gender variable to the latin word.
- colechristensen 5y agoComing from gendered languages, most Hispanics either don’t know about Latinx at all and the ones that do, most of them think it’s inappropriate. It is a bit strange to try to remove gender from a word for people who mostly speak a gendered language. It seems mostly to be a virtue signaling thing among a rather small almost exclusively American, english as first language subculture. A bit like the bathroom I saw in a coffee shop that listed all the different kinds of people that were acceptable to use the single occupancy one toilet one sink room. Trying too hard to be inclusive can be an insult to the actual issues at hand.
- nisse72 5y agoThere is a Swedish expression: nobody is named, and nobody is forgotten. Usually you hear it in a workplace setting when people (often, a subset of the correct group) are being acknowleged for an acheivement of some kind. As soon as you try to enumerate all of those groups you will undoubtedly forget someone, who will then take offense at the omission. So the saying is a reminder to not single out anyone.
- leephillips 5y ago“something else to describe it” The best summing-up I’ve seen is: linguistic colonialism.
- JPKab 5y agoWhat's the plural of pedantic jackass?
- thelibrarian 5y agoI have a friend who says using the word “octopi” displays ignorance of three languages at once - English, Latin, and (ancient) Greek.
- kortex 5y agoI realize they are being cheeky but the ironic thing is "ignorance of N languages" is one of the primary drivers of linguistic cross-pollenation and drift. Taking loanwords, shoehorning them into your phonology, writing, and grammar is just how these things work.
- Igelau 5y agoEric Weinstein says some crazy stuff, but I remember hearing him once say that the best debate strategy for Republicans would be to mention the "noo-kyoo-lar" family, and let them correct you to "nuclear". Then you win because the other side looks like pedants and elitists. This "octopi" is definitely such a word.
- sfgweilr4f 5y agoSide note: all this off-topic pedantry about octopi vs octopuses is an old discussion already resolved. It is clouding discussion about what the full implications of what it actually means to treat octopus (ha!) as sentient.
- jjeaff 5y agoI don't think the Democrats have cornered the market on pedantry just yet.
- rat87 5y agohttps://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plurals-of-octopus-octopi-octopuses-octopodes https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plura...
- ddulaney 5y ago“Octopi is what's known as a hypercorrection” might also be overcorrection (meta-hypercorrection?) now that octopi is an understood plural with enough usage that it’s in some dictionaries.
- screye 5y agoOctopi is certainly questionable, but Octopedes isn't as obviously correct as we'd think. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/270/what-is-the-correct-plural-of-octopus https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/270/what-is-the-... https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1zx411e7VG/ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1zx411e7VG/ (deleted from yt)
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Octopi is not the correct plural. Octopi is not the most common plural, true. > Octopus is of greek origin, not latin. Octopus entered English from scientific Latin. In which the Greek plural was not used. (Lots of words in English fron languages other than their language of origin and have irregular English forms from their immediate source rather than their remote origin.) “Octopi” appears to be the earliest English plural of octopus. > Thus, its greek plural is octopodes. “Thus” is incorrect there, but, yes, that is its Greek plural. > And thus, since we don't tend to use greek plurals in english But we do. Just not, until comparatively recently and never dominantly, in the case of “octopodes”. > the other proper plural is octopuses. That is the most common English plural, and you don't really need a (false) historical narrative to support that it is “proper” except coming from a broken prescriptivist framework. > Octopi is what's known as a hypercorrection Since its the oldest attested English plural, its not a hypercorrection, just (arguably) dated. Though its probably the most common incorrect example of hypercorrection. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plurals-of-octopus-octopi-octopuses-octopodes https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plura...
- monkeybutton 5y agoThis is fascinating and instead of replying I've been reading about this and looking up words like cacti. For what it's worth, both plural forms for Octopus are in my phone's autocomplete dictionary.
- arcticbull 5y agoOctopuses or octopodes are regarded as the correct pluralizations, for those who remember the HQ trivia scandal of 2017. All three pluralizations are wrong in some ways, but acceptable. [1] [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plurals-of-octopus-octopi-octopuses-octopodes https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plura...
- dudeinjapan 5y agoI asked an octopus and he said he prefers "octopi".
- Igelau 5y agoObviously the correct answer is to call them by their preferred plural noun.
- colechristensen 5y agoThis is English, not Latin or Greek. There’s no such thing as “correct” in language as long as you can be understood, especially for silly details like how to make a plural. You’ll find octopi in the dictionary because it is commonly used. Remember all words are made up anyway. If you’re not the editor of a publication making local standards for how you want to use language, it’s better not to correct people when they’re perfectly well understood.
- monkeybutton 5y agoThis is what it comes down to in the end. Words are memes, and the best replicating meme wins.
- onemiketwelve 5y agoMay the dankest words prevail
- doctor_eval 5y agoYes. A dictionary doesn't tell you how to use words, it tells you how words are used.
- onemiketwelve 5y agodic·tion·ar·y /ˈdikSHəˌnerē/ noun a book or electronic resource that lists the words of a language (typically in alphabetical order) and gives their meaning, or gives the equivalent words in a different language, often also providing information about pronunciation, origin, and usage.
- stordoff 5y agoMany dictionaries aim to be descriptive, not prescriptive, as doctor_eval said. That definition doesn't change that: OED: "The Oxford English Dictionary is not an arbiter of proper usage, despite its widespread reputation to the contrary. The Dictionary is intended to be descriptive, not prescriptive. In other words, its content should be viewed as an objective reflection of English language usage, not a subjective collection of usage 'dos' and 'don'ts'. However, it does include information on which usages are, or have been, popularly regarded as 'incorrect'."[1] Merriam-Webster: "Merriam-Webster is a descriptive dictionary in that it aims to describe and indicate how words are actually used by English speakers and writers. Generally, the descriptive approach to lexicography does not dictate how words should be used or set forth rules of "correctness," unlike the prescriptive approach."[2] OUP: "All of Oxford Languages' content aims to describe, rather than prescribe, the way languages are used by people around the world."[3] I believe your definition comes from one of the Oxford dictionaries - iOS lists it as coming from the Oxford Dictionary of English, and Lexico (a partnership with Oxford, whose About page links to [3]) includes it[4]. [1] https://www.oed.com/public/oed3guide/guide-to-the-third-edition-of https://www.oed.com/public/oed3guide/guide-to-the-third-edit... [2] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/descriptive-vs-prescriptive-defining-lexicography https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/descriptive-vs... [3] https://languages.oup.com/about-us/how-we-create-language-content/ https://languages.oup.com/about-us/how-we-create-language-co... [4] https://www.lexico.com/definition/dictionary https://www.lexico.com/definition/dictionary
- Kye 5y agoI call them octopuppers.
- chefandy 5y agoFor that to render _"octopi"_ incorrect, you'll also have to convincingly argue that a centuries-old etymology mishap supersedes its common usage since then— the far more common measure to define correctness in English grammar. Sociolinguists aim to study and describe the effect of society and culture on the formation of grammar. They don't present their findings as rules, and we shouldn't interpret them that way.
- utunga 5y agoA great example of Grays law: "Any online discussion that mentions the word 'octopi' - regardless how tangentially - will eventually turn into a discussion on linguistics"
- lanevorockz 5y agoLanguage is not about correct or incorrect, just about what people use. Please don’t obsess about it.
- omoikane 5y agoSee also the alt text for this comic: https://xkcd.com/928/ https://xkcd.com/928/ Spoiler for the bit referenced in the alt text: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/928:_Mimic_Octopus https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/928:_Mimic_Octopu...
- User23 5y agoToday I learned about the wunderpus.
- rat87 5y agoall 3 are correct https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2voh0q https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2voh0q (Octopus - Merriam-Webster Ask the Editor)
- mellavora 5y agoPerhaps so, but fortunately the plural of applepus is applepi. If you are lucky, it has a scoop of vanilla ice cream on top.