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This. It’s not just a random part of a car their stealing. It’s entirely possible that loosing the catalytic converter cascades into being jobless and homeless

This. It’s not just a random part of a car their stealing. It’s entirely possible that loosing the catalytic converter cascades into being jobless and homeless.

ec109685 5y ago
You can drive without a catalytic converter (though you will fail smog test so it could eventually cascade to that).
- genewitch 5y ago
  When the cat is removed your car almost certainly violates noise ordinance, so it's undrivable unless you know someone quick with exhaust pipes and clips or a welder. So, yeah, you can drive a car without a cat, but not without a muffler (generally). Fix it tickets still incur a monetary cost.
- Eelongate 5y ago
  You can't drive a car safely without a catalytic converter (unless the thief has been kind enough to patch up their damage with a straight piece of pipe, which never happens.) With a damaged exhaust system under the car, the driver is at substantial risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. And with a driver so intoxicated, everybody else on or near the road is at risk as well.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  > You can drive without a catalytic converter This is incorrect for modern diesels that have a DPF system and inject DEF fluid. The cats are required hardware. You may be allowed 50-250 miles without them then the vehicle will not operate. It is well within possibility that someone stealing your cat between two places in Texas could be a big problem for you.
redanddead 5y ago
However this argument can be made for so many things. Even just the tall person in front of you argument, what if the movie (about lottery for example) was so moving to such a person it would have changed their life, bought a lottery ticket and gotten rich, is the person justified to kill the tall person for potentially stealing their livelihood? Joking aside, I can think of a million examples, each more comical and absurd than the last
- gretch 5y ago
  Those examples don't matter. What matters are the examples that appeal to representative lawmakers, judges, and juries. If you go in front of a judge and jury and talk about how they were coming to take your stuff, on your land, so you shot them, you might very well be completely innocent depending on the jurisdiction. If you go in front of a judge and talk about your lottery ticket and tall people or whatever you'll be thrown out for wasting the court's time because real problems are trying to be solved. All those examples you can think about are just a form of intellectual masturbation about how you are actually Right and how you've poked a hole in the counterparties argument. The truth is that the real world is a complex place full of gray areas, and the expectations of others in society matters.
- fergbrain 5y ago
  Being tall isn’t illegal. Physically ripping out a catalytic converter from a persons car is. And don’t forget, it’s not like the police will do anything to help you…they’ve abdicated their role in many places for many crimes.
palmetieri2000 5y ago
This is an argument that the system in which you are operating is flawed, society should ensure that you are not so vulnerable that a vehicle failing will make you end up jobless and homeless. This is not a good argument that criminals disabling your vehicle for profit is an acceptable justification for killing them.
- swearwolf 5y ago
  I don’t agree that you should shoot someone for stealing your catalytic converter either, but just for the sake of argument… So what if the argument that having your car disabled could spiral you into homelessness is more of a critique on our lack of a safety net? What can the average citizen do about that? At this point, not very much. The system is cruel, yes, but it’s the one they live in. In my city, catalytic converters thrives are known to be highly organized, armed, and prone to violently confronting people who try to chase them off. A few people have even been shot for trying to do so. The police are too busy with shooting after shooting to do anything effective to try to stop them. When you have a group of people going out night after night, stealing with impunity and threatening anyone who gets in their way, it becomes very difficult to muster any compassion for them.
  - palmetieri2000 5y ago
    (little bit confused by your first sentence, I definitely do not support shooting people for stealing ones cat converter, just for clarification) So if the police are useless and you are beholden to this powerful and highly organized pack of thieves, you think going out there and shooting them is going to make your life any better? What happens if you don't 'get' them all and now you're in a shootout with multiple armed opponents? What about the rest of their organization, reckon they will let you get away with it? Personally, I'd rather have my car temporarily damaged. What can an average citizen do about their safety net in the US? Probably a whole shitload, anywhere from political participation, union involvement, volunteering, voting for politicians that support a better safety net.

This. It’s not just a random part of a car their stealing. It’s entirely possible that loosing the catalytic converter cascades into being jobless and homeless.

ec109685 5y ago

You can drive without a catalytic converter (though you will fail smog test so it could eventually cascade to that).

genewitch 5y ago
When the cat is removed your car almost certainly violates noise ordinance, so it's undrivable unless you know someone quick with exhaust pipes and clips or a welder. So, yeah, you can drive a car without a cat, but not without a muffler (generally). Fix it tickets still incur a monetary cost.
Eelongate 5y ago
You can't drive a car safely without a catalytic converter (unless the thief has been kind enough to patch up their damage with a straight piece of pipe, which never happens.) With a damaged exhaust system under the car, the driver is at substantial risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. And with a driver so intoxicated, everybody else on or near the road is at risk as well.
SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
> You can drive without a catalytic converter This is incorrect for modern diesels that have a DPF system and inject DEF fluid. The cats are required hardware. You may be allowed 50-250 miles without them then the vehicle will not operate. It is well within possibility that someone stealing your cat between two places in Texas could be a big problem for you.

redanddead 5y ago

However this argument can be made for so many things. Even just the tall person in front of you argument, what if the movie (about lottery for example) was so moving to such a person it would have changed their life, bought a lottery ticket and gotten rich, is the person justified to kill the tall person for potentially stealing their livelihood? Joking aside, I can think of a million examples, each more comical and absurd than the last

gretch 5y ago
Those examples don't matter. What matters are the examples that appeal to representative lawmakers, judges, and juries. If you go in front of a judge and jury and talk about how they were coming to take your stuff, on your land, so you shot them, you might very well be completely innocent depending on the jurisdiction. If you go in front of a judge and talk about your lottery ticket and tall people or whatever you'll be thrown out for wasting the court's time because real problems are trying to be solved. All those examples you can think about are just a form of intellectual masturbation about how you are actually Right and how you've poked a hole in the counterparties argument. The truth is that the real world is a complex place full of gray areas, and the expectations of others in society matters.
fergbrain 5y ago
Being tall isn’t illegal. Physically ripping out a catalytic converter from a persons car is. And don’t forget, it’s not like the police will do anything to help you…they’ve abdicated their role in many places for many crimes.

palmetieri2000 5y ago

This is an argument that the system in which you are operating is flawed, society should ensure that you are not so vulnerable that a vehicle failing will make you end up jobless and homeless. This is not a good argument that criminals disabling your vehicle for profit is an acceptable justification for killing them.

swearwolf 5y ago
I don’t agree that you should shoot someone for stealing your catalytic converter either, but just for the sake of argument… So what if the argument that having your car disabled could spiral you into homelessness is more of a critique on our lack of a safety net? What can the average citizen do about that? At this point, not very much. The system is cruel, yes, but it’s the one they live in. In my city, catalytic converters thrives are known to be highly organized, armed, and prone to violently confronting people who try to chase them off. A few people have even been shot for trying to do so. The police are too busy with shooting after shooting to do anything effective to try to stop them. When you have a group of people going out night after night, stealing with impunity and threatening anyone who gets in their way, it becomes very difficult to muster any compassion for them.
- palmetieri2000 5y ago
  (little bit confused by your first sentence, I definitely do not support shooting people for stealing ones cat converter, just for clarification) So if the police are useless and you are beholden to this powerful and highly organized pack of thieves, you think going out there and shooting them is going to make your life any better? What happens if you don't 'get' them all and now you're in a shootout with multiple armed opponents? What about the rest of their organization, reckon they will let you get away with it? Personally, I'd rather have my car temporarily damaged. What can an average citizen do about their safety net in the US? Probably a whole shitload, anywhere from political participation, union involvement, volunteering, voting for politicians that support a better safety net.