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If we are doing our fair share by land mass it should be 500m by 2050. I find it astonishing that people have an easier time believing we can colonise Mars tha

by dools 5y ago

If we are doing our fair share by land mass it should be 500m by 2050. I find it astonishing that people have an easier time believing we can colonise Mars than that we can colonise the centre of Australia.

Reason077 5y ago
We know we could colonise the center of Australia (or the center of Antarctica for that matter), if we really wanted to. What makes Mars interesting is that it’s hard. Nobody is arguing that we should go to Mars because it is easy!
jlawer 5y ago
We can colonize the centre of Australia. There just isn't a reason to do so. You can see wherever they find a patch of minerals, a mining town springs up. Decades ago, there were towns all along the train lines to support the rail services, but as trains got more reliable they were no longer required. There are few advantages to being in the centre of Australia. Many of the people who live there do so because they have a connection with that land. The average person would rather live in a crammed Sydney apartment complex then live in the middle of the Simpson desert. Mars is new. We really don't know what will happen. There are a group of people throughout history that have "chanced it" and gone to the new world out of the hope they can build something better. You will have the same rush on Mars.
- prawn 5y ago
  "We can colonize the centre of Australia. There just isn't a reason to do so." Also, you drive through a lot of less arid farm land before you get anywhere near desert. Including past dying country towns (many below the Goyder Line). We could increase the density of rural properties (from large farms down to farmlets, etc) or do more to boost living in fading townships well before there was any reason to make the desert more habitable.
  - dools 5y ago
    Haha yeah man. The people who say "Fuck off we're full" are the ones who are "full of it". I was speaking to an Egyptian taxi driver in Sydney one day about that "fuck off we're full" political party and he was like "bro you're EMPTY, look at this place we're in the middle of the most densely populated capital in the country and there's still barely anyone here"
- pabs3 5y ago
  If Australia can figure out how to export the energy, the centre might be a great place to build giant solar farms.
  - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
    There is a plan to do this https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/14/just-a-matter-of-when-the-20bn-plan-to-power-singapore-with-australian-solar https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/14/just-a-m...
  - dools 5y ago
    Hydrogen!
burntbridge 5y ago
We have the land mass but not the water.
- dools 5y ago
  Desalination and water recycling are the way of the future. Everyone just has to grow up and stop being so squeamish about things everyone will eventually find normal.
dunco 5y ago
land mass =/= habitable land mass. Help me understand your view because I simply cannot fathom how you must think to want 500M people in Australia. Have you traveled? Do you want to live the way people live in overcrowded countries? Do you think there will be some trickle down economic effect for you? Do you place any value on the environment?
- dools 5y ago
  I don't see how Aussies expect to live on the least densely populated continent right next to the most densely populated continent much longer. The only question is on whose terms we reclaim arable land and begin the process of populating currently unpopulated regions. I reckon the average population density of Japan is a pretty good target, and that's what I'm basing the 500m figure on. My point is that people assume we can turn Mars, an entire arid planet with no water, into a habitable place but that we can't turn deserts on earth into habitable, arable land.
  - dunco 5y ago
    Japan is a net importer of food and probably could not feed its population if it had to. We can't all be net importers of food. Australia's problem is water. Our rivers are already environmental disasters because agriculture belligerently takes too much water. The earth is finite. And it becomes undesirable and polluted long before we hit a hard population ceiling. I just do not understand people who would happily see the entire earth destroyed just so we can have a few more billion humans. we have too many already. almost all high density places in the world are shitholes. Japan is an exception, but I don't have faith that Australia could be. Sydney is already seeing net loss of residents (excluding new migrants) because it is becoming overcrowded.

by dools 5y ago

Reason077 5y ago

We know we could colonise the center of Australia (or the center of Antarctica for that matter), if we really wanted to. What makes Mars interesting is that it’s hard. Nobody is arguing that we should go to Mars because it is easy!

jlawer 5y ago

We can colonize the centre of Australia. There just isn't a reason to do so. You can see wherever they find a patch of minerals, a mining town springs up. Decades ago, there were towns all along the train lines to support the rail services, but as trains got more reliable they were no longer required. There are few advantages to being in the centre of Australia. Many of the people who live there do so because they have a connection with that land. The average person would rather live in a crammed Sydney apartment complex then live in the middle of the Simpson desert. Mars is new. We really don't know what will happen. There are a group of people throughout history that have "chanced it" and gone to the new world out of the hope they can build something better. You will have the same rush on Mars.

prawn 5y ago
"We can colonize the centre of Australia. There just isn't a reason to do so." Also, you drive through a lot of less arid farm land before you get anywhere near desert. Including past dying country towns (many below the Goyder Line). We could increase the density of rural properties (from large farms down to farmlets, etc) or do more to boost living in fading townships well before there was any reason to make the desert more habitable.
- dools 5y ago
  Haha yeah man. The people who say "Fuck off we're full" are the ones who are "full of it". I was speaking to an Egyptian taxi driver in Sydney one day about that "fuck off we're full" political party and he was like "bro you're EMPTY, look at this place we're in the middle of the most densely populated capital in the country and there's still barely anyone here"
pabs3 5y ago
If Australia can figure out how to export the energy, the centre might be a great place to build giant solar farms.
- SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
  There is a plan to do this https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/14/just-a-matter-of-when-the-20bn-plan-to-power-singapore-with-australian-solar https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/14/just-a-m...
- dools 5y ago
  Hydrogen!

burntbridge 5y ago

We have the land mass but not the water.

dools 5y ago
Desalination and water recycling are the way of the future. Everyone just has to grow up and stop being so squeamish about things everyone will eventually find normal.

dunco 5y ago

land mass =/= habitable land mass. Help me understand your view because I simply cannot fathom how you must think to want 500M people in Australia. Have you traveled? Do you want to live the way people live in overcrowded countries? Do you think there will be some trickle down economic effect for you? Do you place any value on the environment?

dools 5y ago
I don't see how Aussies expect to live on the least densely populated continent right next to the most densely populated continent much longer. The only question is on whose terms we reclaim arable land and begin the process of populating currently unpopulated regions. I reckon the average population density of Japan is a pretty good target, and that's what I'm basing the 500m figure on. My point is that people assume we can turn Mars, an entire arid planet with no water, into a habitable place but that we can't turn deserts on earth into habitable, arable land.
- dunco 5y ago
  Japan is a net importer of food and probably could not feed its population if it had to. We can't all be net importers of food. Australia's problem is water. Our rivers are already environmental disasters because agriculture belligerently takes too much water. The earth is finite. And it becomes undesirable and polluted long before we hit a hard population ceiling. I just do not understand people who would happily see the entire earth destroyed just so we can have a few more billion humans. we have too many already. almost all high density places in the world are shitholes. Japan is an exception, but I don't have faith that Australia could be. Sydney is already seeing net loss of residents (excluding new migrants) because it is becoming overcrowded.