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I don't buy it. Am I the only one who appreciates things more after being away from them for a long time? Or is that more than dopamine? I thought dopamine w

I don't buy it. Am I the only one who appreciates things more after being away from them for a long time? Or is that more than dopamine? I thought dopamine was involved with motivation and would at least in large part explain why I might get tired of playing a video game but then suddenly get way more enjoyment out of it if I play it again 6 months later. Perhaps I'm from another planet. It just seems like for anything I find to be helpful there's some academic article discrediting it. > Misunderstanding science can create maladaptive behaviors Given that it seems pretty unlikely that someone could become addicted to dopamine fasting, it's really up to the individual and not science as to whether their behavior is maladaptive. It doesn't really matter whether non-academics understand dopamine if they still find benefit in the process.

rsync 5y ago
I believe you are correct. A much better term for this practice is “hedonic fast”.
- Zababa 5y ago
  I like the term "hedonic fast", but I would interpret it as the opposite of what it would be, as I already know "water fast", a fast where you only consume water. Perhaps "stimuli abstinence"? Abstinence is defined as "a self-enforced restraint from indulging in bodily activities that are widely experienced as giving pleasure". "stimuli" would ensure that people don't think directly about sexual abstinence.
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    No, “water fast” is wrong, so your application of a wrong word association should not further corrupt other correctly worded descriptions.
    - Zababa 5y ago
      How is "water fast" wrong?
      - imwillofficial 5y ago
        Because you’re not fasting from the use of water
        Zababa 5y ago
        That might be a stupid question but is there a grammar rule or something that would suggest that "water fast" is "abstaining from water" and not "abstaining from food except water"? Maybe it's an expansion of the definition of fasting and thus leads to "abstaining from water", in which case the correct term would be "water diet".
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        You nailed it.
    - fredophile 5y ago
      If you talk to anyone involved with fasting and mention a water fast they will understand that to mean fasting while still consuming water. If everyone else agrees on how the term is used then you may want to reconsider if the term is wrong or not.
      - imwillofficial 5y ago
        The reality is you’re right. Modern usage does not take into account my terminology purism.
Zababa 5y ago
I don't know much about how the brain works, but I know that I appreaciate more the chocolate in a vanilla ice cream with small bits of chocolate than in a chocolate ice cream. I know that I appreciate water more after not drinking it for some time and being thirsty. I appreciate more my parents since I moved out and see them not every day but around once a week. On the other hand, after having spent too much time playing a game (ever over a period of years), I start to not feel any pleasure when playing it. Given all of that, the ideas behind dopamine fasting make sense to me. I won't claim that it does for everyone of course, but if someone tells me that it doesn't make sense because this or that in the brain, I would tell them that it doesn't match my experience of other things. Maybe dopamine shouldn't be in the name, maybe it shouldn't call fasting, but I feel like the article is attacking the content and not just the name.
- mattkrause 5y ago
  Sure, but do you find video games more interesting when thirsty? Does chocolate tastes better when eaten without good company? The argument is that lumping everything together is unnecessary: you can disconnect from different things at different times. I’d say this is true for the biochemistry too: dopamine has myriad roles and avoiding flash photography to reduce retinal dopamine release seems…unlikely to relate to mood. Heck, about half of dopamine isn’t even in the brain: it’s got a big role in the gut and pancreas too!
  - Zababa 5y ago
    Interesting. I would say that video games aren't more interesting when thirsty. On the other hand, depending on the moment, video games, chocolate, having a good company and social media can all fill a certain void, that I wouldn't encounter if I disconnected from each of the things separately. I think that's what might be meant by dopamine fasting, though the "dopamine" term focuses a bit too much on the supposed origin of the feeling instead of the feeling itself.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
The general idea is real: Abstaining from an activity for a while can make it more enjoyable. But the "dopamine fasting" trend has evolved into a weird extremist version of this where people try to avoid everything that might be enjoyable for a while. The catch, of course, is that you don't have to avoid everything enjoyable to rekindle that feeling of enjoyment for returning to specific things. These people would be far happier if they simply used their downtime to go exercise, or go for a walk, or socialize, or volunteer, or call up old friends. You don't have to be miserable to restore the enjoyment of something. Just do something else for a while instead of being chronically online all day every day.
- campbel 5y ago
  Ironically, extreme anti-dopamine fasting could be releasing dopamine if you feel that you are succeeding at it.
calebm 5y ago
> It just seems like for anything I find to be helpful there's some academic article discrediting it. I've noticed the same thing.

rsync 5y ago

I believe you are correct. A much better term for this practice is “hedonic fast”.

Zababa 5y ago
I like the term "hedonic fast", but I would interpret it as the opposite of what it would be, as I already know "water fast", a fast where you only consume water. Perhaps "stimuli abstinence"? Abstinence is defined as "a self-enforced restraint from indulging in bodily activities that are widely experienced as giving pleasure". "stimuli" would ensure that people don't think directly about sexual abstinence.
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  No, “water fast” is wrong, so your application of a wrong word association should not further corrupt other correctly worded descriptions.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    How is "water fast" wrong?
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      Because you’re not fasting from the use of water
      - Zababa 5y ago
        That might be a stupid question but is there a grammar rule or something that would suggest that "water fast" is "abstaining from water" and not "abstaining from food except water"? Maybe it's an expansion of the definition of fasting and thus leads to "abstaining from water", in which case the correct term would be "water diet".
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        You nailed it.
  - fredophile 5y ago
    If you talk to anyone involved with fasting and mention a water fast they will understand that to mean fasting while still consuming water. If everyone else agrees on how the term is used then you may want to reconsider if the term is wrong or not.
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      The reality is you’re right. Modern usage does not take into account my terminology purism.

Zababa 5y ago

I don't know much about how the brain works, but I know that I appreaciate more the chocolate in a vanilla ice cream with small bits of chocolate than in a chocolate ice cream. I know that I appreciate water more after not drinking it for some time and being thirsty. I appreciate more my parents since I moved out and see them not every day but around once a week. On the other hand, after having spent too much time playing a game (ever over a period of years), I start to not feel any pleasure when playing it. Given all of that, the ideas behind dopamine fasting make sense to me. I won't claim that it does for everyone of course, but if someone tells me that it doesn't make sense because this or that in the brain, I would tell them that it doesn't match my experience of other things. Maybe dopamine shouldn't be in the name, maybe it shouldn't call fasting, but I feel like the article is attacking the content and not just the name.

mattkrause 5y ago
Sure, but do you find video games more interesting when thirsty? Does chocolate tastes better when eaten without good company? The argument is that lumping everything together is unnecessary: you can disconnect from different things at different times. I’d say this is true for the biochemistry too: dopamine has myriad roles and avoiding flash photography to reduce retinal dopamine release seems…unlikely to relate to mood. Heck, about half of dopamine isn’t even in the brain: it’s got a big role in the gut and pancreas too!
- Zababa 5y ago
  Interesting. I would say that video games aren't more interesting when thirsty. On the other hand, depending on the moment, video games, chocolate, having a good company and social media can all fill a certain void, that I wouldn't encounter if I disconnected from each of the things separately. I think that's what might be meant by dopamine fasting, though the "dopamine" term focuses a bit too much on the supposed origin of the feeling instead of the feeling itself.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

The general idea is real: Abstaining from an activity for a while can make it more enjoyable. But the "dopamine fasting" trend has evolved into a weird extremist version of this where people try to avoid everything that might be enjoyable for a while. The catch, of course, is that you don't have to avoid everything enjoyable to rekindle that feeling of enjoyment for returning to specific things. These people would be far happier if they simply used their downtime to go exercise, or go for a walk, or socialize, or volunteer, or call up old friends. You don't have to be miserable to restore the enjoyment of something. Just do something else for a while instead of being chronically online all day every day.

campbel 5y ago
Ironically, extreme anti-dopamine fasting could be releasing dopamine if you feel that you are succeeding at it.

calebm 5y ago

> It just seems like for anything I find to be helpful there's some academic article discrediting it. I've noticed the same thing.