6 ms·

Did they ask you to explain it? Did you talk about shortcomings of it? Most of the crypto related posts feels like advertising/preaching. Issues with their pro

Did they ask you to explain it? Did you talk about shortcomings of it? Most of the crypto related posts feels like advertising/preaching. Issues with their proposed solutions are rarely focused on and when they're brought up, hand waving begins. I think this is a consequence of crypto proponents using mostly same talking points, usually decentralization/some libertarian dream. Technical discussions are rarely initiated. I've been following this since early days of BTC and I'm so tired of it. I don't see anything in it that would help our society. Maybe due to your political leanings you do.

prohobo 5y ago
No, they didn't. Most people just make inflammatory comments or make extremely complex "gotcha" claims that aren't true, which need both parties to be cooperative to resolve. I was busy trying to make arguments against wild claims, and ended up saying dumb things like "Amazon Alexas burn more energy in a year by sitting idle in people's homes than the entire Bitcoin network does"; things that are technically true but don't resolve the attacker's underlying unease - and so are unhelpful. Crypto has a lot of real problems like the current markets which seem to just be re-enforcing the worst aspects of capitalism; and other issues like: costs, scalability, lack of connection to physical objects/systems (the NFT problem), dispute resolution, etc. These problems are huge, especially if blockchain tech ever becomes mainstream. The problem is that discussion of these topics - in casual discussions at least - gets derailed by ideological flag waving. To me it's like Occupy Wall Street being derailed by wokeists; they weren't able to mobilize anything meaningful because they were bogged down by delusional anxieties.
- gls2ro 5y ago
  Out of curiosity how do you estimate this comparison: > Amazon Alexas burn more energy in a year by sitting idle in people's homes than the entire Bitcoin network does
  - prohobo 5y ago
    I actually looked into it and got the quote wrong, it's not Amazon Alexas globally, it's all "always on devices" in America; including computers, gaming consoles, etc. From googling and "This Machine Greens" docu: > American always on devices: 1375 TWh per year > Cruise ships: 250 TWh per year > Bitcoin: 116 TWh per year > Online advertising: 106 TWh per year > American Alexas: 1.52 TWh per year
    - svennek 5y ago
      That is almost 630 watts per person (250 million people, 24*365 hours per year)... That seems like a lot... As a north european techie spending power on quite a few always on things (respberry pis, a nas, a router, wifi, ps5 etc)- but also freezer, fridge, cooking - and lightning for half the year and a little extra heating, I have used around 2500 kWh year to date, which is roughly 320 watts in total (or half that stated figure for always on devices alone...) EDIT: I remembered the american population size wrong, the right figure is 475 watts @330 Mln people, but my point stands..
      - prohobo 5y ago
        I would say less technically savvy people probably use more electricity, not less. And you're assuming that you're the average American consumer. There are probably old toasters and electrical heaters that contribute significantly to that figure. In any case, the conservative estimate is still several times that of Bitcoin's usage. I'd also say cruise ships are more egregious, which no one seems to care about despite them definitely not using clean energy or being remotely useful, using 2.5x the amount of energy as Bitcoin - or as much as Spain!
        svennek 5y ago
        I am sure as hell not letting my toaster run 24/7, is that a common 'murican thing? (joking). I did not question that Americans use a lot of power (my power budget is also just half of the average Dane as most of my heating is by steam made by the electricity plants (and paid on it's own) and all pumps regarding water (fresh and dirty) is paid by my building coop and not me personally. But for any reasonable comparison it needs to be "non-critical 24/7 devices" such as routers, nas'es, computers etc and not infrastructure needed for survival.. Also there is a lot of regulation in the EU about standby power (and also in California, if I am not mistaken)? Didn't I see some tech news about that 2 months ago or so? Comparing electric heating with bitcoin is a bit weird - heating is a necessity in a lot of the world (including where I live) for most of the year. Bitcoin is not and will never be a survival necessity in the original sense of the word.. Also, there is a lot of focus on ship emissions as people all around the world have noticed the problem, the latest regulation change was in 2020 - not for cruise ships but for all ships...

prohobo 5y ago

No, they didn't. Most people just make inflammatory comments or make extremely complex "gotcha" claims that aren't true, which need both parties to be cooperative to resolve. I was busy trying to make arguments against wild claims, and ended up saying dumb things like "Amazon Alexas burn more energy in a year by sitting idle in people's homes than the entire Bitcoin network does"; things that are technically true but don't resolve the attacker's underlying unease - and so are unhelpful. Crypto has a lot of real problems like the current markets which seem to just be re-enforcing the worst aspects of capitalism; and other issues like: costs, scalability, lack of connection to physical objects/systems (the NFT problem), dispute resolution, etc. These problems are huge, especially if blockchain tech ever becomes mainstream. The problem is that discussion of these topics - in casual discussions at least - gets derailed by ideological flag waving. To me it's like Occupy Wall Street being derailed by wokeists; they weren't able to mobilize anything meaningful because they were bogged down by delusional anxieties.

gls2ro 5y ago
Out of curiosity how do you estimate this comparison: > Amazon Alexas burn more energy in a year by sitting idle in people's homes than the entire Bitcoin network does
- prohobo 5y ago
  I actually looked into it and got the quote wrong, it's not Amazon Alexas globally, it's all "always on devices" in America; including computers, gaming consoles, etc. From googling and "This Machine Greens" docu: > American always on devices: 1375 TWh per year > Cruise ships: 250 TWh per year > Bitcoin: 116 TWh per year > Online advertising: 106 TWh per year > American Alexas: 1.52 TWh per year
  - svennek 5y ago
    That is almost 630 watts per person (250 million people, 24*365 hours per year)... That seems like a lot... As a north european techie spending power on quite a few always on things (respberry pis, a nas, a router, wifi, ps5 etc)- but also freezer, fridge, cooking - and lightning for half the year and a little extra heating, I have used around 2500 kWh year to date, which is roughly 320 watts in total (or half that stated figure for always on devices alone...) EDIT: I remembered the american population size wrong, the right figure is 475 watts @330 Mln people, but my point stands..
    - prohobo 5y ago
      I would say less technically savvy people probably use more electricity, not less. And you're assuming that you're the average American consumer. There are probably old toasters and electrical heaters that contribute significantly to that figure. In any case, the conservative estimate is still several times that of Bitcoin's usage. I'd also say cruise ships are more egregious, which no one seems to care about despite them definitely not using clean energy or being remotely useful, using 2.5x the amount of energy as Bitcoin - or as much as Spain!
      - svennek 5y ago
        I am sure as hell not letting my toaster run 24/7, is that a common 'murican thing? (joking). I did not question that Americans use a lot of power (my power budget is also just half of the average Dane as most of my heating is by steam made by the electricity plants (and paid on it's own) and all pumps regarding water (fresh and dirty) is paid by my building coop and not me personally. But for any reasonable comparison it needs to be "non-critical 24/7 devices" such as routers, nas'es, computers etc and not infrastructure needed for survival.. Also there is a lot of regulation in the EU about standby power (and also in California, if I am not mistaken)? Didn't I see some tech news about that 2 months ago or so? Comparing electric heating with bitcoin is a bit weird - heating is a necessity in a lot of the world (including where I live) for most of the year. Bitcoin is not and will never be a survival necessity in the original sense of the word.. Also, there is a lot of focus on ship emissions as people all around the world have noticed the problem, the latest regulation change was in 2020 - not for cruise ships but for all ships...