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> Whereas with Auto, you literally never know what you're going to get. It's not on conscious level - everybody thinks their Auto A/C it's awesome. Until you wa

> Whereas with Auto, you literally never know what you're going to get. It's not on conscious level - everybody thinks their Auto A/C it's awesome. Until you watch their actual sub-conscious behaviour on a drive. Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? Auto is actual temperature control. The system tries to stay at the set temperature. It’s a lot more comfortable that having cold air blasted in your face like we used to. I have never witnessed anyone changing it while driving, only flow control.

NikolaNovak 5y ago
>>Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? Honest answer, not fudged for sake of making a point - Yes. Absolutely. I don't know if hyper-expensive luxury vehicles do better, but I can vouch that my wife has been frequently changing in our 2012 Kia Sportage, 2016 RAV4, and now 2019 Honda Odyssey. I've observed others do so frequently in Toyota Corolla, Honda Civiv, Subaru Crosstrek, VW Golf & Jetta. Like Kerning or Norman doors, or a low battery in screenshot, once you notice it you can't help notice it ever forth. So those are my observed facts - people fiddle with their auto A/C a lot. Why? I have my theories, but that is something I'm less confident about and none of them may be correct or sufficient (I've tried asking people, but as mentioned, most have no idea they're actually doing it and it doesn't seem to be on conscious level; which is reasonable - my own adjustment has always been "automatic" until I started paying conscious attention): - Perhaps it's just psychological. If I'm feeling cold, I don't trust the system and I turn it up. If I'm feeling warm, I want it colder faster. If it's -10C outside, I'll turn it up to 24C even though it may not get me warmer than if I just left it at 21C. Then it gets 24C and I'm hot. This may be just a case of humans using good system badly. - I think however, is that system ignores some of the reality. The AIR temperature may be a steady 21C. But if the air is 21C in cabin on a dark cold night when it's -10C outside when the very windshield seems to suck the warmth out of my body, I probably actually want it warmer. If it's 21C air but noon July sun is blazing on me, I probably actually want ambient temperature colder. If I start a July trip heading south and Sun is blasting on me, I need A/C cooler; then I turn North-West and sun is behind me, and all this A/C is now chilling me too much. I think it's an error to think ambient temperature is all that our body cares to be comfortable - I think what we're wearing, how we're feeling, what the radiative environment is, etc, are all factors. - Finally, it's that unpredictability and chasing. Heavily influenced by above, sometimes you're just comfortable, but A/C changes what it's doing because what it measures and what your lived reality is don't match, so you end up chasing each other. Maybe 2021 Mercedes S class etc don't have that problem; maybe people have changed it and you never noticed, or maybe they genuinely haven't because your systems are better or people are using it smarter or they just care less or whatever other reason; but I have personally seen very few people set Automatic HVAC to a specific temperature and never touch it again. My 100 Croatian Lipa :)
- technothrasher 5y ago
  It's not the control system, it's the psychology. People just aren't willing to let the car control the temperature automatically. It drives me nuts, but that's the reality. I've yet to find a car made after about 1990 that doesn't handle it better than people do. Fiddling with the setpoint and/or the output just makes the system never settle. If you just leave it alone it gets the job done. But I'd say it's about 10-20% of drivers that actually do that. The rest screw with it constantly.
  - vikingerik 5y ago
    I don't want the car to control the temperature automatically, because maintaining a set level is not a useful requirement. 20° C or any other number is not a rigid standard. It might feel cold or hot for any given moment in any given situation based on any amount of other environmental factors - outside temperature, clothing, sunlight, activity level while in the vehicle. Human perception is famously wildly variable and often more relative than absolute. I want a car that has a dial for "hotter" or "colder" and that's it. I'll adjust it in response to my perceptions at any given moment. With a motion wired in to a couple seconds of muscle memory and not poking around layers of touch screen menus. Some car manufacturers have figured out that some people don't want the fancy garbage. I bought a Nissan Kicks last year and it has every control as a simple manual knob or button; the touchscreen only controls audio features.
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    - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
      I think it might be partially cultural. From my experience here people don’t have A/C at home, wear adequate clothes for the weather and expect temperatures inside to be in a confortable range and that’s it. Everyone I know just set the auto A/C to 20 or 21 and forget it exists.
magicalhippo 5y ago
> Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? My GF has the climate control in the car set to the max (28C) and regulates the temperature by turning it on or off. Part of the reason she hates the auto setting is that if it's not blowing hotter air over her, she feels cold. And she hates feeling cold. However leave the climate control on a higher setting and the car ends up uncomfortably hot. For her, the ideal climate control would be one which regulated fan speed rather than air exhaust temperature. That said, in our BMW i3 the temperature target is a physical knob, easily controlled while driving. So there's that.
- phil294 5y ago
  But... almost all cars (including BMW i3) do have seperate fan speed and temperature controls. So isn't this exactly what she would want?
  - magicalhippo 5y ago
    No, the point is that the automatic temperature control controls the exhaust temperature. Once the target temperature is reached, you get a flow of not-very-hot air. Since it's moving, the wind-chill factor makes it feel like cool air.

NikolaNovak 5y ago

>>Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? Honest answer, not fudged for sake of making a point - Yes. Absolutely. I don't know if hyper-expensive luxury vehicles do better, but I can vouch that my wife has been frequently changing in our 2012 Kia Sportage, 2016 RAV4, and now 2019 Honda Odyssey. I've observed others do so frequently in Toyota Corolla, Honda Civiv, Subaru Crosstrek, VW Golf & Jetta. Like Kerning or Norman doors, or a low battery in screenshot, once you notice it you can't help notice it ever forth. So those are my observed facts - people fiddle with their auto A/C a lot. Why? I have my theories, but that is something I'm less confident about and none of them may be correct or sufficient (I've tried asking people, but as mentioned, most have no idea they're actually doing it and it doesn't seem to be on conscious level; which is reasonable - my own adjustment has always been "automatic" until I started paying conscious attention): - Perhaps it's just psychological. If I'm feeling cold, I don't trust the system and I turn it up. If I'm feeling warm, I want it colder faster. If it's -10C outside, I'll turn it up to 24C even though it may not get me warmer than if I just left it at 21C. Then it gets 24C and I'm hot. This may be just a case of humans using good system badly. - I think however, is that system ignores some of the reality. The AIR temperature may be a steady 21C. But if the air is 21C in cabin on a dark cold night when it's -10C outside when the very windshield seems to suck the warmth out of my body, I probably actually want it warmer. If it's 21C air but noon July sun is blazing on me, I probably actually want ambient temperature colder. If I start a July trip heading south and Sun is blasting on me, I need A/C cooler; then I turn North-West and sun is behind me, and all this A/C is now chilling me too much. I think it's an error to think ambient temperature is all that our body cares to be comfortable - I think what we're wearing, how we're feeling, what the radiative environment is, etc, are all factors. - Finally, it's that unpredictability and chasing. Heavily influenced by above, sometimes you're just comfortable, but A/C changes what it's doing because what it measures and what your lived reality is don't match, so you end up chasing each other. Maybe 2021 Mercedes S class etc don't have that problem; maybe people have changed it and you never noticed, or maybe they genuinely haven't because your systems are better or people are using it smarter or they just care less or whatever other reason; but I have personally seen very few people set Automatic HVAC to a specific temperature and never touch it again. My 100 Croatian Lipa :)

technothrasher 5y ago
It's not the control system, it's the psychology. People just aren't willing to let the car control the temperature automatically. It drives me nuts, but that's the reality. I've yet to find a car made after about 1990 that doesn't handle it better than people do. Fiddling with the setpoint and/or the output just makes the system never settle. If you just leave it alone it gets the job done. But I'd say it's about 10-20% of drivers that actually do that. The rest screw with it constantly.
- vikingerik 5y ago
  I don't want the car to control the temperature automatically, because maintaining a set level is not a useful requirement. 20° C or any other number is not a rigid standard. It might feel cold or hot for any given moment in any given situation based on any amount of other environmental factors - outside temperature, clothing, sunlight, activity level while in the vehicle. Human perception is famously wildly variable and often more relative than absolute. I want a car that has a dial for "hotter" or "colder" and that's it. I'll adjust it in response to my perceptions at any given moment. With a motion wired in to a couple seconds of muscle memory and not poking around layers of touch screen menus. Some car manufacturers have figured out that some people don't want the fancy garbage. I bought a Nissan Kicks last year and it has every control as a simple manual knob or button; the touchscreen only controls audio features.
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
    I think it might be partially cultural. From my experience here people don’t have A/C at home, wear adequate clothes for the weather and expect temperatures inside to be in a confortable range and that’s it. Everyone I know just set the auto A/C to 20 or 21 and forget it exists.

magicalhippo 5y ago

> Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? My GF has the climate control in the car set to the max (28C) and regulates the temperature by turning it on or off. Part of the reason she hates the auto setting is that if it's not blowing hotter air over her, she feels cold. And she hates feeling cold. However leave the climate control on a higher setting and the car ends up uncomfortably hot. For her, the ideal climate control would be one which regulated fan speed rather than air exhaust temperature. That said, in our BMW i3 the temperature target is a physical knob, easily controlled while driving. So there's that.

phil294 5y ago
But... almost all cars (including BMW i3) do have seperate fan speed and temperature controls. So isn't this exactly what she would want?
- magicalhippo 5y ago
  No, the point is that the automatic temperature control controls the exhaust temperature. Once the target temperature is reached, you get a flow of not-very-hot air. Since it's moving, the wind-chill factor makes it feel like cool air.