5 ms·

I Was Illegally Fired for Trying to Unionize Tesla

90 points by jasonhansel 5y ago

tluyben2 5y ago
I watched this John Oliver[0] a few days ago which shows that apparently (I am not from the US and also have never had to deal with unions) it does not matter anyway illegal or not. [0] https://youtu.be/Gk8dUXRpoy8 https://youtu.be/Gk8dUXRpoy8
- hhggffdd 5y ago
  You really shouldn’t get your news from a comedian.
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Yeah, I am not crazy. I know him a lot longer than this show. But I learned this from the show (I do not care much about the subject as unions are kind of normal here so as an employer I don't care either way) and looked up a few points which seem true. I should have added a ? At the end. Is it not true? That it is illegal to fire but that the repercussions are almost nothing for the company? I see they are trying to make far harsher laws against this in some articles but for now it seems a mess no?
    - djanogo 5y ago
      "Yeah, I am not crazy" ... "I learned this from the show" - Pick one. Like other commenters said he provides VERY biased view of any issue that he covers. If you want to understand laws of _other_ countries you would have understand lot more laws and precedents for those laws. Anything you "learn" from drive by political skit is garbage.
- disneygibson 5y ago
  John Oliver is a biased comedian out for laughs. You should never take his “investigations” as anything more than entertainment.
  - tragictrash 5y ago
    If you actually watched him, you would know that he takes on a lot of hard hitting issues. It is a comedy show, but it's not there to educate you on these subjects. It is there to pique your intrest, and to inform you that an alternate way of looking at the subject exists, and you should go learn more about it.
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    Is he any more or less biased than any other journalist out there? Everything in this video was factual. Do you have criticisms of the actual content besides that it was entertaining? Edit: re: "investigations" This isn't investigative reporting. You could have put the information in this segment together sans comedian from your laptop with probably 20 minutes of googling. It's all well known facts that are out there that he's bringing to the surface.
amachefe 5y ago
Maybe you can try Rivian, might have better luck
sennight 5y ago
Nothing would make me automate faster than being told I had to accommodate employees plotting against my interests or the strategic objectives of the enterprise I built. That is especially true if there was a hint of an outside union franchise sniffing about.
- toofy 5y ago
  > … plotting against the strategic objectives of the enterprise I built. Nothing would make me unionize faster than a boss whose delusion is so thorough he has convinced himself it’s his work alone and not the team which has brought the product to life.
  - sennight 5y ago
    That is what the money is for, but I'm sure your coup d'etat would do wonders for the product and not end in a predictable cycle of cannibalization that finally gives way to business failure.
  - vadfa 5y ago
    Workers, especially line workers, are expendable. A good CEO very much is not.
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    A couple of arguments I have heard against unionizing at the Tesla factory is that the workers are part of the innovation that takes place there. I'm not sure if that kind of flexibility would be permitted in a union run factory. Also the UAW rarely does or is able to negotiate for stock options, which Tesla workers currently have. Although I can't speak to the validity of either of these. Glass door seems to rate Tesla well and I doubt Tesla managed to game Glass Door but no one else has.
    - op00to 5y ago
      What? How are non-union employees “innovative”, but union employees are unable to be innovative? Just because you are a part of a union doesn’t mean your brain shuts off.
SyzygistSix 5y ago
I'm having a difficult time finding the numbers of unionized and non-unionized auto workers in the US. Lots of propaganda both for and against unionized autoworkers but little useful information. More and more that seems to be the state of the internet; lots of articles and information but little that is useful and what is useful is difficult to find. Overall it looks like 2/3 of auto workers are unionized? And the split is the Big 3 versus everyone else. And it looks like the big difference is pensions. And the fact the the Big 3 make shitty cars and ginormous trucks that make little sense to me. An interesting article about the BMW plant in Spartanburg SC finds fault with both UAW and BMW. That's the plant where I heard rumors that the German BMW workers threatened to strike on behalf of the South Carolina workers, partially to also protect their own situation though. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/06/spar-s06.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/06/spar-s06.html I would also love to learn more about unions and workers' councils in Germany, as they sound less antagonistic with management while still managing to look out for workers. I wonder if something like that could work in the US. Either way, investigating either of these topics would be a major undertaking. UAW benefits sound great but I sure would not be proud to work at Chrysler.
- sanp 5y ago
  "..And the fact the the Big 3 make shitty cars..." From a quality perspective. Tesla makes the shittiest cars. https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-reliability-model-s-3-x-y-consumer-reports-satisfaction-2021-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-reliability-model-s-3-...
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    I was thinking more from a desirability and sales perspective. From what I've heard, the problems with the Fremont factory were not replicated in the Chinese production line, so hopefully they will also not plague the German factory or other future factories. It's understandable in a new car company. It's only a problem if they don't address the issues. As for now, every single electric vehicle made by anyone is in such demand that they are sold far in advance. It will be several years until demand can be met, if not longer. That's about as good a problem in manufacturing as one is able to have. Chrysler has no EV models. Chevy has the Bolt. Ford will be offering compelling vehicles but not in any numbers for a good while. As far as other legacy automakers, it looks like Hyundai and Volkswagen group will be eating everyone's lunch.

90 points by jasonhansel 5y ago

I watched this John Oliver[0] a few days ago which shows that apparently (I am not from the US and also have never had to deal with unions) it does not matter anyway illegal or not. [0] https://youtu.be/Gk8dUXRpoy8 https://youtu.be/Gk8dUXRpoy8

hhggffdd 5y ago
You really shouldn’t get your news from a comedian.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Yeah, I am not crazy. I know him a lot longer than this show. But I learned this from the show (I do not care much about the subject as unions are kind of normal here so as an employer I don't care either way) and looked up a few points which seem true. I should have added a ? At the end. Is it not true? That it is illegal to fire but that the repercussions are almost nothing for the company? I see they are trying to make far harsher laws against this in some articles but for now it seems a mess no?
  - djanogo 5y ago
    "Yeah, I am not crazy" ... "I learned this from the show" - Pick one. Like other commenters said he provides VERY biased view of any issue that he covers. If you want to understand laws of _other_ countries you would have understand lot more laws and precedents for those laws. Anything you "learn" from drive by political skit is garbage.
disneygibson 5y ago
John Oliver is a biased comedian out for laughs. You should never take his “investigations” as anything more than entertainment.
- tragictrash 5y ago
  If you actually watched him, you would know that he takes on a lot of hard hitting issues. It is a comedy show, but it's not there to educate you on these subjects. It is there to pique your intrest, and to inform you that an alternate way of looking at the subject exists, and you should go learn more about it.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  Is he any more or less biased than any other journalist out there? Everything in this video was factual. Do you have criticisms of the actual content besides that it was entertaining? Edit: re: "investigations" This isn't investigative reporting. You could have put the information in this segment together sans comedian from your laptop with probably 20 minutes of googling. It's all well known facts that are out there that he's bringing to the surface.

amachefe 5y ago

Maybe you can try Rivian, might have better luck

sennight 5y ago

Nothing would make me automate faster than being told I had to accommodate employees plotting against my interests or the strategic objectives of the enterprise I built. That is especially true if there was a hint of an outside union franchise sniffing about.

toofy 5y ago
> … plotting against the strategic objectives of the enterprise I built. Nothing would make me unionize faster than a boss whose delusion is so thorough he has convinced himself it’s his work alone and not the team which has brought the product to life.
- sennight 5y ago
  That is what the money is for, but I'm sure your coup d'etat would do wonders for the product and not end in a predictable cycle of cannibalization that finally gives way to business failure.
- vadfa 5y ago
  Workers, especially line workers, are expendable. A good CEO very much is not.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  A couple of arguments I have heard against unionizing at the Tesla factory is that the workers are part of the innovation that takes place there. I'm not sure if that kind of flexibility would be permitted in a union run factory. Also the UAW rarely does or is able to negotiate for stock options, which Tesla workers currently have. Although I can't speak to the validity of either of these. Glass door seems to rate Tesla well and I doubt Tesla managed to game Glass Door but no one else has.
  - op00to 5y ago
    What? How are non-union employees “innovative”, but union employees are unable to be innovative? Just because you are a part of a union doesn’t mean your brain shuts off.

SyzygistSix 5y ago

I'm having a difficult time finding the numbers of unionized and non-unionized auto workers in the US. Lots of propaganda both for and against unionized autoworkers but little useful information. More and more that seems to be the state of the internet; lots of articles and information but little that is useful and what is useful is difficult to find. Overall it looks like 2/3 of auto workers are unionized? And the split is the Big 3 versus everyone else. And it looks like the big difference is pensions. And the fact the the Big 3 make shitty cars and ginormous trucks that make little sense to me. An interesting article about the BMW plant in Spartanburg SC finds fault with both UAW and BMW. That's the plant where I heard rumors that the German BMW workers threatened to strike on behalf of the South Carolina workers, partially to also protect their own situation though. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/06/spar-s06.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/06/spar-s06.html I would also love to learn more about unions and workers' councils in Germany, as they sound less antagonistic with management while still managing to look out for workers. I wonder if something like that could work in the US. Either way, investigating either of these topics would be a major undertaking. UAW benefits sound great but I sure would not be proud to work at Chrysler.

sanp 5y ago
"..And the fact the the Big 3 make shitty cars..." From a quality perspective. Tesla makes the shittiest cars. https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-reliability-model-s-3-x-y-consumer-reports-satisfaction-2021-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-reliability-model-s-3-...
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  I was thinking more from a desirability and sales perspective. From what I've heard, the problems with the Fremont factory were not replicated in the Chinese production line, so hopefully they will also not plague the German factory or other future factories. It's understandable in a new car company. It's only a problem if they don't address the issues. As for now, every single electric vehicle made by anyone is in such demand that they are sold far in advance. It will be several years until demand can be met, if not longer. That's about as good a problem in manufacturing as one is able to have. Chrysler has no EV models. Chevy has the Bolt. Ford will be offering compelling vehicles but not in any numbers for a good while. As far as other legacy automakers, it looks like Hyundai and Volkswagen group will be eating everyone's lunch.