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> It’s a marketplace for digitally watermarked digital art. I think you deeply misunderstand how NFTs work, as most people seem to. They're not digitally water

by smt88 5y ago

> It’s a marketplace for digitally watermarked digital art. I think you deeply misunderstand how NFTs work, as most people seem to. They're not digitally watermarked. The only thing you buy with an NFT is the watermark itself (so to speak). It's very similar to buying a trading card of a certain work of art. There is no ownership involved (digital or otherwise). You just get your "name" on a list of "owners" that is public and non-editable. Among the problems with NFTs is that you can copy the art bit-for-bit. It's not like the Mona Lisa -- you can't take a real painting a copy molecules that are 300 years old. Worse, you can also just copy the list of "owners"! You have no way of knowing if you "own" the "official" NFT or not.

herval 5y ago
You buy the right to sell that digital piece - others can copy as they please, but only the owner of the NFT can sell/transfer/destroy it (depending on the contract, of course). So it’s closer to a “deed” to a digital asset than a “watermark”. Digital art has always been copyable bit for bit, and that property will likely never change. You can’t compare it to a physical painting, and saying clonability invalidates something as art would also invalidate music, video, and any other fork of digital content. You can’t “copy the list of owners” either, not sure where you got that from.
- smt88 5y ago
  > You buy the right to sell that digital piece - others can copy as they please, but only the owner of the NFT can sell/transfer/destroy it (depending on the contract, of course). You can copy the digital piece and distribute it as much as you want. An NFT is just a record on a blockchain saying that [wallet address] is the current owner of [URL]. It has absolutely nothing to do with ownership. The creator of an NFT can legally create a contract saying "whoever the blockchain says owns [URL] is the owner of [piece of art]," but that is a minority of cases and it also depends on the legal system. Ownership relying on a legal system is not new and it doesn't require NFTs. > saying clonability invalidates something as art would also invalidate music, video, and any other fork of digital content I didn't say clonability invalidates something as art. I said clonability invalidates NFTs as a meaningful form of ownership in and of themselves. > You can’t “copy the list of owners” either, not sure where you got that from. You can sell an NFT of the Mona Lisa. I can also sell it. That means there are two NFT ownership records for Mona Lisa. In fact, there can be infinite ownership records. The only way to tell that a certain ownership chain is the original is by checking timestamps, but that doesn't tell you anything about whether the original seller of the NFT is also the owner of the work of art.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    This reminds me of the case with Simon Stålenhag—when he got hassled by token enthusiasts trying to convince him to join (to lend their space such direly needed credibility), and later found somebody else selling his art as on some NFT marketplace.
    - kranke155 5y ago
      Direly needed credibility ? Not sure when what you’re describing happened. NFTs are in every major art auction house, major world art exhibit (Venice, Basel, etc) In the art world NFTs are now ubiquitous.
      - strogonoff 5y ago
        Well, the reality is that token promoters came to Simon, not Simon to token promoters, so… By the way, care to support with any links at all? So far these are empty words. Googling Venice NFT does not point to some reputable gallery adopting tokens, just a post from some cryptocurrency promoting media outlet about some token promoters who set up their own gallery on a beach.
        kranke155 5y ago
        https://fadmagazine.com/2021/11/18/nft-now-x-christies-present-the-gateway-at-art-basel-miami/ https://fadmagazine.com/2021/11/18/nft-now-x-christies-prese... https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2021/11/09/tezos-brings-artificial-intelligence-and-nfts-together-at-art-basel-miami-beach https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2021/11/09/tezos-brings-arti... My bad for thinking NFTs were in Venice officially. Here’s a good overview of what’s happening even though it’s an article critizing Frieze London - https://www.google.com/amp/s/decrypt.co/84466/london-nft-scene-thrives-even-as-frieze-art-fair-sits-out%3famp=1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/decrypt.co/84466/london-nft-sce... There was of course the huge gathering in NYC a short time ago. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/11/05/technology/nft-nyc-metaverse.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/11/05/tech... Christie’s, Sotheby’s are selling NFTs. The art fairs are adopting. Visa has purchased a major NFT for their art collection (Cryptopunk). Multiple major brands and celebrities are minting and joining NFT platforms ie Pharell in Music. As far as artists go I’m finding that most have heard of NFTs and many are adopting.

by smt88 5y ago

herval 5y ago

You buy the right to sell that digital piece - others can copy as they please, but only the owner of the NFT can sell/transfer/destroy it (depending on the contract, of course). So it’s closer to a “deed” to a digital asset than a “watermark”. Digital art has always been copyable bit for bit, and that property will likely never change. You can’t compare it to a physical painting, and saying clonability invalidates something as art would also invalidate music, video, and any other fork of digital content. You can’t “copy the list of owners” either, not sure where you got that from.

smt88 5y ago
> You buy the right to sell that digital piece - others can copy as they please, but only the owner of the NFT can sell/transfer/destroy it (depending on the contract, of course). You can copy the digital piece and distribute it as much as you want. An NFT is just a record on a blockchain saying that [wallet address] is the current owner of [URL]. It has absolutely nothing to do with ownership. The creator of an NFT can legally create a contract saying "whoever the blockchain says owns [URL] is the owner of [piece of art]," but that is a minority of cases and it also depends on the legal system. Ownership relying on a legal system is not new and it doesn't require NFTs. > saying clonability invalidates something as art would also invalidate music, video, and any other fork of digital content I didn't say clonability invalidates something as art. I said clonability invalidates NFTs as a meaningful form of ownership in and of themselves. > You can’t “copy the list of owners” either, not sure where you got that from. You can sell an NFT of the Mona Lisa. I can also sell it. That means there are two NFT ownership records for Mona Lisa. In fact, there can be infinite ownership records. The only way to tell that a certain ownership chain is the original is by checking timestamps, but that doesn't tell you anything about whether the original seller of the NFT is also the owner of the work of art.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  This reminds me of the case with Simon Stålenhag—when he got hassled by token enthusiasts trying to convince him to join (to lend their space such direly needed credibility), and later found somebody else selling his art as on some NFT marketplace.
  - kranke155 5y ago
    Direly needed credibility ? Not sure when what you’re describing happened. NFTs are in every major art auction house, major world art exhibit (Venice, Basel, etc) In the art world NFTs are now ubiquitous.
    - strogonoff 5y ago
      Well, the reality is that token promoters came to Simon, not Simon to token promoters, so… By the way, care to support with any links at all? So far these are empty words. Googling Venice NFT does not point to some reputable gallery adopting tokens, just a post from some cryptocurrency promoting media outlet about some token promoters who set up their own gallery on a beach.
      - kranke155 5y ago
        https://fadmagazine.com/2021/11/18/nft-now-x-christies-present-the-gateway-at-art-basel-miami/ https://fadmagazine.com/2021/11/18/nft-now-x-christies-prese... https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2021/11/09/tezos-brings-artificial-intelligence-and-nfts-together-at-art-basel-miami-beach https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2021/11/09/tezos-brings-arti... My bad for thinking NFTs were in Venice officially. Here’s a good overview of what’s happening even though it’s an article critizing Frieze London - https://www.google.com/amp/s/decrypt.co/84466/london-nft-scene-thrives-even-as-frieze-art-fair-sits-out%3famp=1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/decrypt.co/84466/london-nft-sce... There was of course the huge gathering in NYC a short time ago. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/11/05/technology/nft-nyc-metaverse.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/11/05/tech... Christie’s, Sotheby’s are selling NFTs. The art fairs are adopting. Visa has purchased a major NFT for their art collection (Cryptopunk). Multiple major brands and celebrities are minting and joining NFT platforms ie Pharell in Music. As far as artists go I’m finding that most have heard of NFTs and many are adopting.