4 ms·

> Kind of like how when you get vaccinated you provide value to your community by reducing the chance that you’ll become a disease vector. So getting the vaccin

by ascar 5y ago

> Kind of like how when you get vaccinated you provide value to your community by reducing the chance that you’ll become a disease vector. So getting the vaccine improves the health of everyone around you. If we didn’t subsidize vaccines, fewer people would get them, and we’d all be worse off. This was a story told to us in the beginning of widespread vaccination, but is disproven since we have evidence that vaccinated people can carry and spread the virus. The story changed to we are less likely to spread it, but there is also evidence for similar amounts of virus in vaccinated people, so I take it with a grain of salt given the history. (multiple reputable sources readily available on Google) It's important to know and spread this information as it means that even though vaccinated people protect themselves from harsh symptoms they still have to be careful not to spread the virus.

CodeShmode 5y ago
> similar amounts of virus in vaccinated people Yeah right, gonna have to see a reference for that. Is it 'some vaccinated people have been found with equivalent amounts of virus' or 'on average they have the same amount of virus'. Because they're vastly different scenarios.
- elvatoloco55 5y ago
  Its well documented that unvaccinated or vaccinated spread the virus in similar percentages. Go look in google scholar, why do you want to be spoon fed
  - dsr_ 5y ago
    It's not for their benefit, it's for yours. Do you want to be known as the sort of person who claims "it's in the literature" but never provides cites? Or do you want to be known as the sort of person who says "it's at this link"? Unless you have gained name recognition, HN is a series of games in which you can decide to play or not in any given round, has limited but real downside (in terms of fake internet points), and not very limited upside. So you can get away with being a defector on occasion, but it's much better to be a cooperator.
    - SubuSS 5y ago
      The whole citing business has become more of googling your viewpoint and providing the top 10 links rather than actual research. It has been my long standing opinion that this is pretty much the same as replacing your doctor with webmd. Sadly experts can’t be replaced by YouTube education. Anyway - my first google link - https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infectious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid-171302 https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/no-vacc...
- mandmandam 5y ago
  ? This is quite wide-spread and old news, and trivial to look up yourself before getting snarky. > For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-var...
  - n4r9 5y ago
    Being vaccinated reduces the chance of getting infected in the first place. This is true even for the delta variant (although much more so for earlier variants) https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/s1473309921006484-1635425926927.pdf https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/pb-assets/La...
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      That doesn't take away from the truth of what I said - in fact it's covered at length in the very same link I posted. Sigh
      - n4r9 5y ago
        Your link contained a speculation about the length of time for which vaccinated people are infectious. Mine is a study demonstrating that the chance of transmission to contacts is reduced. Surely probability of transmission is the key factor determining whether vaccination reduces the spread of the disease?
CodeShmode 5y ago
Some data for the opposite: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/12/1044553048/covid-data-vaccines-breakthrough-infections-transmission https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/12/1044553... "If you actually isolate virus from people who are getting a secondary infection after being vaccinated, that virus is less good at infecting cells," "all 37 case patients for whom data were available regarding the source of infection, the suspected source was an unvaccinated person."
- jimmygrapes 5y ago
  I am skeptical of this association between the term "data" and the quoted qualifier "suspected".
n8henrie 5y ago
This is only half the story. Compared to the unvaccinated, how likely are vaccinated individuals to have detectable virus in the first place?
- ascar 5y ago
  That might very well be true and as a vaccinated person myself I hope it is true. But how does that affect my conclusion that the vaccinated still have to be careful and herd immunity is unlikely to be a thing? A false sense of security is a problem in itself.
  - n8henrie 5y ago
    You seem to be making a few assumptions. The other half of the story could easily be that vaccinated individuals are equally likely to harbor detectable virus, I'm just pointing out that there is a big other factor to consider before we know how important vaccination is with regards to herd immunity and benefit (or risk) to one's community.

by ascar 5y ago

CodeShmode 5y ago

> similar amounts of virus in vaccinated people Yeah right, gonna have to see a reference for that. Is it 'some vaccinated people have been found with equivalent amounts of virus' or 'on average they have the same amount of virus'. Because they're vastly different scenarios.

elvatoloco55 5y ago
Its well documented that unvaccinated or vaccinated spread the virus in similar percentages. Go look in google scholar, why do you want to be spoon fed
- dsr_ 5y ago
  It's not for their benefit, it's for yours. Do you want to be known as the sort of person who claims "it's in the literature" but never provides cites? Or do you want to be known as the sort of person who says "it's at this link"? Unless you have gained name recognition, HN is a series of games in which you can decide to play or not in any given round, has limited but real downside (in terms of fake internet points), and not very limited upside. So you can get away with being a defector on occasion, but it's much better to be a cooperator.
  - SubuSS 5y ago
    The whole citing business has become more of googling your viewpoint and providing the top 10 links rather than actual research. It has been my long standing opinion that this is pretty much the same as replacing your doctor with webmd. Sadly experts can’t be replaced by YouTube education. Anyway - my first google link - https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infectious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid-171302 https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/no-vacc...
mandmandam 5y ago
? This is quite wide-spread and old news, and trivial to look up yourself before getting snarky. > For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-var...
- n4r9 5y ago
  Being vaccinated reduces the chance of getting infected in the first place. This is true even for the delta variant (although much more so for earlier variants) https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/s1473309921006484-1635425926927.pdf https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/pb-assets/La...
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    That doesn't take away from the truth of what I said - in fact it's covered at length in the very same link I posted. Sigh
    - n4r9 5y ago
      Your link contained a speculation about the length of time for which vaccinated people are infectious. Mine is a study demonstrating that the chance of transmission to contacts is reduced. Surely probability of transmission is the key factor determining whether vaccination reduces the spread of the disease?

CodeShmode 5y ago

Some data for the opposite: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/12/1044553048/covid-data-vaccines-breakthrough-infections-transmission https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/12/1044553... "If you actually isolate virus from people who are getting a secondary infection after being vaccinated, that virus is less good at infecting cells," "all 37 case patients for whom data were available regarding the source of infection, the suspected source was an unvaccinated person."

jimmygrapes 5y ago
I am skeptical of this association between the term "data" and the quoted qualifier "suspected".

n8henrie 5y ago

This is only half the story. Compared to the unvaccinated, how likely are vaccinated individuals to have detectable virus in the first place?

ascar 5y ago
That might very well be true and as a vaccinated person myself I hope it is true. But how does that affect my conclusion that the vaccinated still have to be careful and herd immunity is unlikely to be a thing? A false sense of security is a problem in itself.
- n8henrie 5y ago
  You seem to be making a few assumptions. The other half of the story could easily be that vaccinated individuals are equally likely to harbor detectable virus, I'm just pointing out that there is a big other factor to consider before we know how important vaccination is with regards to herd immunity and benefit (or risk) to one's community.