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There's tons of research on consciousness in the medical field, as it's directly relevant for many disorders and conditions affecting it.

strogonoff 5y ago
Is there some research that makes a refutable claim that consciousness arises from matter, and then proves that claim experimentally?
- Madmallard 5y ago
  It's literally irrelevant when everything we do to manipulate and track it works already. That's why I said the burden of proof is on the silly philosophical claim that it doesn't arise from matter. Like when doctors see someone's blood ammonia levels go up and they're suddenly less aware of everything going on, less responsive, less able to talk about their thoughts and less coherent. Or patients with hypoglycemia losing their short term memory and eye sight and ability to make coherent sentences. And how we can do EEGs and directly see declines in electrical activity when this happens. How could you possibly think that the consciousness is independent of matter at that point? It seems utterly ridiculous.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    Blood ammonia level rise correlates with loss of coherence, but a causative link would require direct proof that consciousness arises from matter, and I suspect there is no such proof (the responses in this thread supporting my suspicion). The other, straightforward interpretation is that there may be a third factor that caused both the high ammonia marker and lack of coherence, and naturally that could be patient’s own consciousness and/or its interactions with other consciousnesses (e.g., alcohol abuse).
    - Madmallard 5y ago
      Sir there's dozens of different things that alter brain physiology with measurable results in alteration of consciousness. I just took a random example.
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        Ah yes, but none of those things are the ~one true reason~ for consciousness! Ah ha gotcha! ignores how systems work together to produce emergent behaviors
        strogonoff 5y ago
        My point is that both causal directions are a possibility, and scientific experiment does not seem to have proved one way over the other so far.

strogonoff 5y ago

Is there some research that makes a refutable claim that consciousness arises from matter, and then proves that claim experimentally?

Madmallard 5y ago
It's literally irrelevant when everything we do to manipulate and track it works already. That's why I said the burden of proof is on the silly philosophical claim that it doesn't arise from matter. Like when doctors see someone's blood ammonia levels go up and they're suddenly less aware of everything going on, less responsive, less able to talk about their thoughts and less coherent. Or patients with hypoglycemia losing their short term memory and eye sight and ability to make coherent sentences. And how we can do EEGs and directly see declines in electrical activity when this happens. How could you possibly think that the consciousness is independent of matter at that point? It seems utterly ridiculous.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  Blood ammonia level rise correlates with loss of coherence, but a causative link would require direct proof that consciousness arises from matter, and I suspect there is no such proof (the responses in this thread supporting my suspicion). The other, straightforward interpretation is that there may be a third factor that caused both the high ammonia marker and lack of coherence, and naturally that could be patient’s own consciousness and/or its interactions with other consciousnesses (e.g., alcohol abuse).
  - Madmallard 5y ago
    Sir there's dozens of different things that alter brain physiology with measurable results in alteration of consciousness. I just took a random example.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      Ah yes, but none of those things are the ~one true reason~ for consciousness! Ah ha gotcha! ignores how systems work together to produce emergent behaviors
      - strogonoff 5y ago
        My point is that both causal directions are a possibility, and scientific experiment does not seem to have proved one way over the other so far.