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If history is any indication the answer to both of those were "they were wrong" and "caused severe financial issues to the company, if it didn't bankrupt them e

by djbebs 5y ago

If history is any indication the answer to both of those were "they were wrong" and "caused severe financial issues to the company, if it didn't bankrupt them entirely"

kristjansson 5y ago
Exactly, the point of the comment being that generous defined benefit pension schemes probably aren’t some paneceal solution that capital is now withholding, but that they were at best a burden and at worst a lie.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  How are individuals supposed to have it any easier, though? Should people just be forced to work until they drop? Or does everybody now need to be some kind of financial genius in order to make retirement work?
  - rhizome 5y ago
    Tax the zillionaires, pay the individuals more, and the executives less. "Robber baron" used to be an insult and a sign of disapproval. It was a popular term.
  - underdeserver 5y ago
    In much of the western world, people set aside ~10% of their paycheck to a pension fund, which then invests it in relatively solid options (stocks, real estate, bonds, with a risk profile that adjusts over time as the worker ages). If you do that throughout a career - keeping the same fund between employers - you have an independent source of income for retirement. By giving significant tax benefits to not withdrawing this money early, most people who worked most of their careers will be set for retirement.
    - nly 5y ago
      Here in the UK: > After a lifetime of saving, the average UK pension pot stands at £61,897. With current annuity rates, this would buy you an average retirement income of only around £3,000 extra per year from 67, which added to the maximum State Pension, makes just over £12,000 a year, just enough for a basic retirement lifestyle. Source[0]. £12K is $16K USD/yr There are also some sobering statistics on PensionBee[1] [0] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/financial-services/pensions-advice-service/what-is-a-good-pension-pot/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/financial-services/pensions-advi... [1] https://www.pensionbee.com/next-generation-of-retirees-report https://www.pensionbee.com/next-generation-of-retirees-repor...

by djbebs 5y ago

If history is any indication the answer to both of those were "they were wrong" and "caused severe financial issues to the company, if it didn't bankrupt them entirely"

kristjansson 5y ago

Exactly, the point of the comment being that generous defined benefit pension schemes probably aren’t some paneceal solution that capital is now withholding, but that they were at best a burden and at worst a lie.

actually_a_dog 5y ago
How are individuals supposed to have it any easier, though? Should people just be forced to work until they drop? Or does everybody now need to be some kind of financial genius in order to make retirement work?
- rhizome 5y ago
  Tax the zillionaires, pay the individuals more, and the executives less. "Robber baron" used to be an insult and a sign of disapproval. It was a popular term.
- underdeserver 5y ago
  In much of the western world, people set aside ~10% of their paycheck to a pension fund, which then invests it in relatively solid options (stocks, real estate, bonds, with a risk profile that adjusts over time as the worker ages). If you do that throughout a career - keeping the same fund between employers - you have an independent source of income for retirement. By giving significant tax benefits to not withdrawing this money early, most people who worked most of their careers will be set for retirement.
  - nly 5y ago
    Here in the UK: > After a lifetime of saving, the average UK pension pot stands at £61,897. With current annuity rates, this would buy you an average retirement income of only around £3,000 extra per year from 67, which added to the maximum State Pension, makes just over £12,000 a year, just enough for a basic retirement lifestyle. Source[0]. £12K is $16K USD/yr There are also some sobering statistics on PensionBee[1] [0] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/financial-services/pensions-advice-service/what-is-a-good-pension-pot/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/financial-services/pensions-advi... [1] https://www.pensionbee.com/next-generation-of-retirees-report https://www.pensionbee.com/next-generation-of-retirees-repor...