4 ms·

Its a very interesting question why (in the spectrum of community organization size) it is the nation-state scale (> 10 mln or so) that has come to become domin

Its a very interesting question why (in the spectrum of community organization size) it is the nation-state scale (> 10 mln or so) that has come to become dominant. "Defeating external adversaries" is in general more of a sabre rattling game than actual warfare, so maybe that is the scale where "mutual destruction" is assured But this precarious equilibrium is not technology independent. What works for blades and projectiles and missiles might not work for engineered viruses. If we don't find ways to quench this adversarial dynamic maybe our days are numbered...

smegger001 5y ago
no one wants to use engineered viruses for war because its to indiscriminate. if the viruses is effective a crippling a adversary it will do that to my people to. you can't make a American seeking virus any more than yo can make a Chinese seeking virus. at that level we are all just bags of the same lipids proteins and ions. and all national boarders are porous and it will get through and kill your people. viruses are in the same bucket of bad war ideas as mustard gas that we dont use because they kill everyone instead of who i point them at.
- burnafter187 5y ago
  I think that's wrong though. Hypothetically you could have a vaccine engineered alongside the virus and deploy it in secret, or at least using some mode of obfuscation. Not that it would be simple, and not that it wouldn't leak, but it's not an impossible scenario to have a country immunized, I don't reckon. I mean, look at COVID response, Russia and China both have their own vaccines, what's to prevent them from sliding in something extra to prevent another disease which has been engineered?
  - smegger001 5y ago
    to do that you would have to start mass manufacturing a vacine a somehow administer it to the whole population secretly. without any other country getting wind of it. then you have to pray it doesn't mutate enough to make your vaccine ineffective. it is to big a project to not leak just based on everyone involved having to not tell anyone. from the researchers the administration of the program to the people working at the production facility.
    - anders_p 5y ago
      > to do that you would have to start mass manufacturing a vacine a somehow administer it to the whole population secretly. To play devil's advocate: This could be happening _right now_. 1) Create and release CoVid. 2) Engineer a vaccine, that also protects against a secondary, 100% deadly virus. (SinoVac?) 3) Vaccinate your own population. 4) Release the super-deadly, secret 2nd virus. 5) Profit. > it is to big a project to not leak just based on everyone involved having to not tell anyone. Yeah. This where it, and most of the other grand conspiracy theories, start to become unrealistic. It would be impossible to keep the secret from coming out. But it would make a great plot for thriller novel.
      - EdwardDiego 5y ago
        I'm reasonably certain Cussler, Clancy, or Chrichton have done subsets of this at least.

smegger001 5y ago

no one wants to use engineered viruses for war because its to indiscriminate. if the viruses is effective a crippling a adversary it will do that to my people to. you can't make a American seeking virus any more than yo can make a Chinese seeking virus. at that level we are all just bags of the same lipids proteins and ions. and all national boarders are porous and it will get through and kill your people. viruses are in the same bucket of bad war ideas as mustard gas that we dont use because they kill everyone instead of who i point them at.

burnafter187 5y ago
I think that's wrong though. Hypothetically you could have a vaccine engineered alongside the virus and deploy it in secret, or at least using some mode of obfuscation. Not that it would be simple, and not that it wouldn't leak, but it's not an impossible scenario to have a country immunized, I don't reckon. I mean, look at COVID response, Russia and China both have their own vaccines, what's to prevent them from sliding in something extra to prevent another disease which has been engineered?
- smegger001 5y ago
  to do that you would have to start mass manufacturing a vacine a somehow administer it to the whole population secretly. without any other country getting wind of it. then you have to pray it doesn't mutate enough to make your vaccine ineffective. it is to big a project to not leak just based on everyone involved having to not tell anyone. from the researchers the administration of the program to the people working at the production facility.
  - anders_p 5y ago
    > to do that you would have to start mass manufacturing a vacine a somehow administer it to the whole population secretly. To play devil's advocate: This could be happening _right now_. 1) Create and release CoVid. 2) Engineer a vaccine, that also protects against a secondary, 100% deadly virus. (SinoVac?) 3) Vaccinate your own population. 4) Release the super-deadly, secret 2nd virus. 5) Profit. > it is to big a project to not leak just based on everyone involved having to not tell anyone. Yeah. This where it, and most of the other grand conspiracy theories, start to become unrealistic. It would be impossible to keep the secret from coming out. But it would make a great plot for thriller novel.
    - EdwardDiego 5y ago
      I'm reasonably certain Cussler, Clancy, or Chrichton have done subsets of this at least.