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Comparing Tesla to Porsche is just ridiculous. Tesla might get some of the battery thing right, but they get so many car thing wrong. For example, that touchsc

Comparing Tesla to Porsche is just ridiculous. Tesla might get some of the battery thing right, but they get so many car thing wrong. For example, that touchscreen. Using physical buttons and knobs to adjust things in the car means that the driver do not need to move their sight away from the road, and can do it blindly (because the buttons and knobs are physical that you can feel with your finger). With a huge touch screen and almost no physical buttons, you need to look at the screen almost every time you need to touch something to make sure that you are touching the right thing. This, and the whole "auto drive" shitshow, among a lot of other examples, shows how Tesla don't care about the safety of anyone outside of their cars. And for a car, safety should be treated with the foremost importance.

RangerScience 5y ago
Tesla owner. While driving, I rarely use the touchscreen, as the knobs + sticks that are available cover everything I need. Then, I find everything about the interfaces vastly, immensely superior to anything I've seen in any other car. Like - what do you even need, while driving? Music controls ("next", volume) and wipers, and blinkers? Done, and easily, and (nearly) clearly. The minimalism is (IMHO) beautiful and very effective. Otherwise, occasionally move the map around. Very rarely change destination address after I've started driving. One a season or something for other stuff (signing into Spotify), but that's pretty much always before I start any drive. What do you even do in you car, while driving, that needs tactile buttons that aren't already covered?
- tmh88j 5y ago
  > Then, I find everything about the interfaces vastly, immensely superior to anything I've seen in any other car. Having to open a menu for wipers is the opposite of that.
  - RangerScience 5y ago
    I have never, ever had to open a menu for wipers. The sticks work and the button is big, obvious, on the "home" screen, and not on the part that changes, so IDK what you're talking about.
  - xdavidliu 5y ago
    this is only partially true; on my model Y you can manually wipe once by pressing a physical button on the left stick of steering wheel, though you’re still right about needing to use screen when switching between wiper speed settings
    - tmh88j 5y ago
      You still have to look at the screen to change them, which is especially ridiculous considering you're likely only to use wipers during inclement conditions when your eyes need to be on the road the most. From my experience, most Tesla apologists do not have a good frame of reference for what other manufacturers offer in the same price point. It's usually their first car that was not an economy car/base model. Of course a Model S is going to feel like the greatest car on the planet if you've only been driving Camry's or whatever. There are so many nuances of experiencing a car that they just don't understand and have no interest in, because when it comes down to it they like the tech experience Tesla provides, not the experience of driving a car.
      - nanobyte 5y ago
        This simply isn't accurate. My first car after college was an Audi A4, and later an S4. And then a BMW. I've lived and driven all manner of higher-end cars while working in Germany. I'd take the Model Y any day. It's the easiest and most intuitive vehicle I've ever driven. I used to think the same way about physical buttons. But in reality, as others have said, you rarely use the touchscreen while driving--and basically everything can be controlled by voice with a tap of a button on the steering wheel. Unlike other carmakers, the voice recognition actually works. I'm guessing they use Google for voice processing? All the primary controls that you might need are located along the bottom of the screen. That includes front/read defrost, heated seats, etc. The volume controls are conveniently found on right, which is ideal for passengers (since the driver would just use the scroll wheel). While driving, I use voice commands for turning on heated seats and/or steering wheel. For setting the temperature, it's literally a single tap on steering wheel, "temperature 67", or "I'm cold", and it'll lower it by 3 degrees. Probably the only time I really use the touch screen is to pull up The Bike Shed podcast and select an episode (which can also be done by voice). Other times include starting the karaoke, which is great fun when you're with family. My mom's Lexus SUV, by comparison, is an unusable abomination of complexity. I think I counted nearly 100 buttons, including a useless "tactile" trackpad. Much of the criticism aimed at the touch interface are from people who have one thing in common: they don't drive one, and therefore make assumptions based on existing experience and intuition. For what it matters, I'm a millennial. But regardless of age, every person who's driven my car remarks on how intuitive and easy to use it is. To be fair, there's stuff that isn't initially intuitive. When I first got the vehicle, I couldn't figure out how to put it in reverse :-). And the interaction of Autopilot and its fallback to TACC (cruise control) during disengagement, the use of the accelerator or right stalk to confirm going through traffic lights--all of which take some getting used to. But the same would apply if those systems existed in other vehicles.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    I disagree, modern wipers on auto sense just work. At least, they work far better than lane assisted cruise control. My major annoyance is the glove box. I probably only opened the glove box 3-4 times a year, but the inconvenience of navigating the touch screen for that far outweighs my cumulative annoyance about wipers, which is pretty nonexistent. I'm far more annoyed at massive view of the car and it's bad estimations of nearby cars. I'd much rather have that prime real estate be occupied by geographical map than a useless and inaccurate map of nearby cars.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - tmh88j 5y ago
      >I disagree, modern wipers on auto sense just work. Not from my experience. Having a dirty windshield or worn out wiper blades causes them to act erratically because the sensors aren't being properly cleaned. I've never heard of another manufacturer with rain sensing wipers removing the physical controls from them too. It's a horrible design choice.
    - jmpman 5y ago
      I’ve started using voice commands to open the glove box. Much better than trying to find the button.
- CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
  >Like - what do you even need, while driving? Front and rear defrost, mist light, wipers, rear passenger airco are things I miss physical buttons for. Mist light is the most annoying since you can't even use voice control and it's fairly deep in the menu. Same thing for passenger airco.
  - RangerScience 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure that the brights (are those the same as mist?) are activated through the normal "pull" action on a stick; but I don't live in an area that gets mist with any regularity so it might not have ever come up for me. I've never even heard of a situation where someone needed to turn on defrosters while driving; I've certainly only ever turned it on before driving (and then it stays fine). I can see the rear passenger airco, but only if you only have rear passengers, since reaching up there isn't going to work.
    - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
      > I'm pretty sure that the brights (are those the same as mist?) They are not the same and are not activated through the pull action. The only way I've found to turn them on is `car`, quick controls, rear mist lights. Maybe your car doesn't have them but they are mandatory in Europe. > I've never even heard of a situation where someone needed to turn on defrosters while driving Ideally not, but have you never started driving and only then realize how bad your vision in the back is? Or maybe you would want to turn it off when the frost is gone. > I can see the rear passenger airco, but only if you only have rear passengers, since reaching up there isn't going to work. When you have kids that's something that will happen frequently.

RangerScience 5y ago

Tesla owner. While driving, I rarely use the touchscreen, as the knobs + sticks that are available cover everything I need. Then, I find everything about the interfaces vastly, immensely superior to anything I've seen in any other car. Like - what do you even need, while driving? Music controls ("next", volume) and wipers, and blinkers? Done, and easily, and (nearly) clearly. The minimalism is (IMHO) beautiful and very effective. Otherwise, occasionally move the map around. Very rarely change destination address after I've started driving. One a season or something for other stuff (signing into Spotify), but that's pretty much always before I start any drive. What do you even do in you car, while driving, that needs tactile buttons that aren't already covered?

tmh88j 5y ago
> Then, I find everything about the interfaces vastly, immensely superior to anything I've seen in any other car. Having to open a menu for wipers is the opposite of that.
- RangerScience 5y ago
  I have never, ever had to open a menu for wipers. The sticks work and the button is big, obvious, on the "home" screen, and not on the part that changes, so IDK what you're talking about.
- xdavidliu 5y ago
  this is only partially true; on my model Y you can manually wipe once by pressing a physical button on the left stick of steering wheel, though you’re still right about needing to use screen when switching between wiper speed settings
  - tmh88j 5y ago
    You still have to look at the screen to change them, which is especially ridiculous considering you're likely only to use wipers during inclement conditions when your eyes need to be on the road the most. From my experience, most Tesla apologists do not have a good frame of reference for what other manufacturers offer in the same price point. It's usually their first car that was not an economy car/base model. Of course a Model S is going to feel like the greatest car on the planet if you've only been driving Camry's or whatever. There are so many nuances of experiencing a car that they just don't understand and have no interest in, because when it comes down to it they like the tech experience Tesla provides, not the experience of driving a car.
    - nanobyte 5y ago
      This simply isn't accurate. My first car after college was an Audi A4, and later an S4. And then a BMW. I've lived and driven all manner of higher-end cars while working in Germany. I'd take the Model Y any day. It's the easiest and most intuitive vehicle I've ever driven. I used to think the same way about physical buttons. But in reality, as others have said, you rarely use the touchscreen while driving--and basically everything can be controlled by voice with a tap of a button on the steering wheel. Unlike other carmakers, the voice recognition actually works. I'm guessing they use Google for voice processing? All the primary controls that you might need are located along the bottom of the screen. That includes front/read defrost, heated seats, etc. The volume controls are conveniently found on right, which is ideal for passengers (since the driver would just use the scroll wheel). While driving, I use voice commands for turning on heated seats and/or steering wheel. For setting the temperature, it's literally a single tap on steering wheel, "temperature 67", or "I'm cold", and it'll lower it by 3 degrees. Probably the only time I really use the touch screen is to pull up The Bike Shed podcast and select an episode (which can also be done by voice). Other times include starting the karaoke, which is great fun when you're with family. My mom's Lexus SUV, by comparison, is an unusable abomination of complexity. I think I counted nearly 100 buttons, including a useless "tactile" trackpad. Much of the criticism aimed at the touch interface are from people who have one thing in common: they don't drive one, and therefore make assumptions based on existing experience and intuition. For what it matters, I'm a millennial. But regardless of age, every person who's driven my car remarks on how intuitive and easy to use it is. To be fair, there's stuff that isn't initially intuitive. When I first got the vehicle, I couldn't figure out how to put it in reverse :-). And the interaction of Autopilot and its fallback to TACC (cruise control) during disengagement, the use of the accelerator or right stalk to confirm going through traffic lights--all of which take some getting used to. But the same would apply if those systems existed in other vehicles.
- epistasis 5y ago
  I disagree, modern wipers on auto sense just work. At least, they work far better than lane assisted cruise control. My major annoyance is the glove box. I probably only opened the glove box 3-4 times a year, but the inconvenience of navigating the touch screen for that far outweighs my cumulative annoyance about wipers, which is pretty nonexistent. I'm far more annoyed at massive view of the car and it's bad estimations of nearby cars. I'd much rather have that prime real estate be occupied by geographical map than a useless and inaccurate map of nearby cars.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - tmh88j 5y ago
    >I disagree, modern wipers on auto sense just work. Not from my experience. Having a dirty windshield or worn out wiper blades causes them to act erratically because the sensors aren't being properly cleaned. I've never heard of another manufacturer with rain sensing wipers removing the physical controls from them too. It's a horrible design choice.
  - jmpman 5y ago
    I’ve started using voice commands to open the glove box. Much better than trying to find the button.
CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
>Like - what do you even need, while driving? Front and rear defrost, mist light, wipers, rear passenger airco are things I miss physical buttons for. Mist light is the most annoying since you can't even use voice control and it's fairly deep in the menu. Same thing for passenger airco.
- RangerScience 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure that the brights (are those the same as mist?) are activated through the normal "pull" action on a stick; but I don't live in an area that gets mist with any regularity so it might not have ever come up for me. I've never even heard of a situation where someone needed to turn on defrosters while driving; I've certainly only ever turned it on before driving (and then it stays fine). I can see the rear passenger airco, but only if you only have rear passengers, since reaching up there isn't going to work.
  - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
    > I'm pretty sure that the brights (are those the same as mist?) They are not the same and are not activated through the pull action. The only way I've found to turn them on is `car`, quick controls, rear mist lights. Maybe your car doesn't have them but they are mandatory in Europe. > I've never even heard of a situation where someone needed to turn on defrosters while driving Ideally not, but have you never started driving and only then realize how bad your vision in the back is? Or maybe you would want to turn it off when the frost is gone. > I can see the rear passenger airco, but only if you only have rear passengers, since reaching up there isn't going to work. When you have kids that's something that will happen frequently.