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I read a while back that scientific ideas usually take about 50 years to be accepted. Which means essentially that they never are accepted, the people who disag

I read a while back that scientific ideas usually take about 50 years to be accepted. Which means essentially that they never are accepted, the people who disagree with them just die and the next generation embrace them. Einstein pretty much hated quantum mechanics and ended up making a bunch of discoveries while making every effort to disprove it. So if that’s how scientists do it - who should be the most amenable profession to new information and ideas, what chance do the rest of us have?

dougabug 5y ago
> Which means essentially that they never are accepted, the people who disagree with them just die and the next generation embrace them. This is to some degree the point made in Kuhn’s “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Re...
raziel2701 5y ago
I think the new ideas get accepted when either the old guard die, and/or an undeniable technology gets created by use of the new idea.
- teddyh 5y ago
  “A new scientific truth does not generally triumph by persuading its opponents and getting them to admit their errors, but rather by its opponents gradually dying out and giving way to a new generation that is raised on it. […] An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: it rarely happens that Saul becomes Paul. What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out, and that the growing generation is familiarized with the ideas from the beginning: another instance of the fact that the future lies with the youth.” — Max Planck, 1948
  - auggierose 5y ago
    Fuck. I don't have that kind of time.
  - pfdietz 5y ago
    I don't think this is accurate. Sometimes the facts are so plain that the new truth wins (or, at least, the old truth dies) quickly without much fuss. Perhaps the earliest example of this was the destruction of the Ptolemaic view of the solar system by Galileo's observation of the phases of Venus. This was a "killer fact" that rapidly (after 1611) led to abandonment of that venerable theory, even by its supporters (although Clavius would die soon after). Sales of the standard texts on Ptolemaic astronomy, Sacrobosco's Sphere and Peuerbach's Theoricae novae planetarum went into immediate terminal decline. A more recent example is the Big Bang's success over the Steady State model. The cosmic microwave background radiation was such an overwhelming piece of evidence in favor of the former that only cranks persisted with the latter (including unfortunately Hoyle, admittedly.)
burnished 5y ago
I mean.. Einstein did prove himself wrong a bunch he just hated it. Its not like the work was flawed, or not performed. Its hard to find the sort of fault in that you seem to be implying.
- jonplackett 5y ago
  I’m not really implying ‘fault’. Who the hell has the right to criticise Einstein! Certainly not me and probably not any other mere human. Just pointing out that he fought hard against a new idea (that did turn out to be right) - with, as you say some really helpful consequences! Maybe he will still turn out to be right in the end though and some grand unification theory is eventually found that is beautiful and simple!

dougabug 5y ago

> Which means essentially that they never are accepted, the people who disagree with them just die and the next generation embrace them. This is to some degree the point made in Kuhn’s “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Re...

raziel2701 5y ago

I think the new ideas get accepted when either the old guard die, and/or an undeniable technology gets created by use of the new idea.

teddyh 5y ago
“A new scientific truth does not generally triumph by persuading its opponents and getting them to admit their errors, but rather by its opponents gradually dying out and giving way to a new generation that is raised on it. […] An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: it rarely happens that Saul becomes Paul. What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out, and that the growing generation is familiarized with the ideas from the beginning: another instance of the fact that the future lies with the youth.” — Max Planck, 1948
- auggierose 5y ago
  Fuck. I don't have that kind of time.
- pfdietz 5y ago
  I don't think this is accurate. Sometimes the facts are so plain that the new truth wins (or, at least, the old truth dies) quickly without much fuss. Perhaps the earliest example of this was the destruction of the Ptolemaic view of the solar system by Galileo's observation of the phases of Venus. This was a "killer fact" that rapidly (after 1611) led to abandonment of that venerable theory, even by its supporters (although Clavius would die soon after). Sales of the standard texts on Ptolemaic astronomy, Sacrobosco's Sphere and Peuerbach's Theoricae novae planetarum went into immediate terminal decline. A more recent example is the Big Bang's success over the Steady State model. The cosmic microwave background radiation was such an overwhelming piece of evidence in favor of the former that only cranks persisted with the latter (including unfortunately Hoyle, admittedly.)

burnished 5y ago

I mean.. Einstein did prove himself wrong a bunch he just hated it. Its not like the work was flawed, or not performed. Its hard to find the sort of fault in that you seem to be implying.

jonplackett 5y ago
I’m not really implying ‘fault’. Who the hell has the right to criticise Einstein! Certainly not me and probably not any other mere human. Just pointing out that he fought hard against a new idea (that did turn out to be right) - with, as you say some really helpful consequences! Maybe he will still turn out to be right in the end though and some grand unification theory is eventually found that is beautiful and simple!