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And this yesterday/today: Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-last-C

And this yesterday/today: Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-last-Consumer-Reports-16632996.php https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-... "issues with “heat pumps, air conditioning” and notoriously, misaligned panels. It’s also worth noting that Tesla’s Model X ranked dead-last among all cars for reliability, scoring a 5 out of 100." I'm wondering if Elon will lash out on twitter or be mean to elderly folks with all this bad news coming his way.

convery 5y ago
Not to defend the company, but degraded performance of the AC (which they cover under warranty) is probably not what most think of when they hear "reliability"..
- nobrains 5y ago
  In hot areas they do. AC reliability is a serious decision maker in vehicle buying decision in hot geographies.
  - cma 5y ago
    Teslas require AC when parked in some year ranges because they didn't use automotive-grade touchscreens (which began delaminating). This then apparently started making some accumulate mold in the AC system somehow.
- justapassenger 5y ago
  Drivetrain failures on modern cars are much less common, ICE or EV. Reliability nowadays is mostly about things like AC and all the tech on the cars. I’ve had friends lemon cars over rattling and squeak or radio cutting off randomly, that service wasn’t able to fix. My car is reliable, as in, it drives, applies nowadays mostly to old beaters, that you buy only to drive and fix anything with a duct tape.
  - everdrive 5y ago
    >Drivetrain failures on modern cars are much less common Unless you drive a Chevy, Nissan, or Ford!
- scrubs 5y ago
  Same here: I would prefer Tesla to rate well on reliability but I can also tell you that in the mid-80s I spent many an hour explaining to a recent Detroit transplant that American car manufacturing quality needs serious improvent and that, no, Japanese quality isn't better mainly because of Japanese government support. Japan took our own Deming seriously; we didn't. Kia isn't Japanese. And Toyota has had problems since their zienth mid 90s. So nobody has got a lock on this. But one has gotta stay after it
rich_sasha 5y ago
Are these scores age-adjusted? If not this is particularly damning, as Tesla has one of the youngest fleets of cars out there.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  I would be interested in something that focuses on recent Model 3s and Ys that are shipped. An old Model X has issues. Big whoop. They shipped a handful compared what they are now shipping.
- lrem 5y ago
  Model S was launched almost 10 years ago, that's enough to get a car out of shape. Then, we're talking about a first generation product of a company learning how to deal with any of that. I don't find it surprising they're not outstanding. In fact, I've seen a brand new Model 3 last year... The amount of manufacturing defects and design issues its owner found in the first week would be unthinkable for a Skoda Fabia. If Tesla wasn't leap and bounds ahead on the drivetrain (including batteries), they'd be on their way out.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Tesla drivetrain is certainly not leaps, and bounds ahead.
  - lottospm 5y ago
    I don't mean to be flip, but I tend to check out white Teslas while driving by on the highway for rear panel gaps. White paint makes it especially obvious. I'd sy 80-90% are fine, but 1 in 10 or the gaps are so bad you can see the asymmetric gaps from 30+ ft away, most often Model Ys anecdotally. I even see what looks like added seals around sides of the rear hatch sometimes.
- ajross 5y ago
  It's a little unclear exactly what the scores even mean, Consumer Reports doesn't share their methodology. They're just unitless numbers supposed to represent the relative likelihood of needing a repair. But the sense of the description is that these are supposed to represent the risk for a new car, not an existing one. Really... this seems like a study designed to get clicks and not make real predictions. An actual result with units saying something like "16% of vehicles surveyed lost more than 1 day of utility due to maintenance problems in their first year" would be really interesting. No one has that, alas. So we all end up arguing about bad science. (My car is just great, FWIW.)
jpeter 5y ago
He will try to sell as much Tesla stock as he can ;)
dotancohen 5y ago
It's also worth noting without Tesla there would be almost no electric car market. The occasional Leaf is about as common as a Ferrari. It's also worth noting that Tesla is the first American car manufacturer to bring a vehicle to mass production in almost a century. The only other American company to come close would be DeLorean, who failed after two or three model years and less than 10,000 chassis I think. The previous one was Chrysler. Honestly, under-warranty misaligned panels and air conditioning complaints are not signs that the company is bad. They are signs that those with an interest in keeping us burning their oil are stooping to any low to kick up dirt on the company responsible for bringing electric cars to mass market appeal. My children smile and point in delight at every Tesla the see, like I used to do in the 1980 at Porches.
- TheDesolate0 5y ago
  LOL.
- fishywang 5y ago
  Comparing Tesla to Porsche is just ridiculous. Tesla might get some of the battery thing right, but they get so many car thing wrong. For example, that touchscreen. Using physical buttons and knobs to adjust things in the car means that the driver do not need to move their sight away from the road, and can do it blindly (because the buttons and knobs are physical that you can feel with your finger). With a huge touch screen and almost no physical buttons, you need to look at the screen almost every time you need to touch something to make sure that you are touching the right thing. This, and the whole "auto drive" shitshow, among a lot of other examples, shows how Tesla don't care about the safety of anyone outside of their cars. And for a car, safety should be treated with the foremost importance.
  - RangerScience 5y ago
    Tesla owner. While driving, I rarely use the touchscreen, as the knobs + sticks that are available cover everything I need. Then, I find everything about the interfaces vastly, immensely superior to anything I've seen in any other car. Like - what do you even need, while driving? Music controls ("next", volume) and wipers, and blinkers? Done, and easily, and (nearly) clearly. The minimalism is (IMHO) beautiful and very effective. Otherwise, occasionally move the map around. Very rarely change destination address after I've started driving. One a season or something for other stuff (signing into Spotify), but that's pretty much always before I start any drive. What do you even do in you car, while driving, that needs tactile buttons that aren't already covered?
TheDesolate0 5y ago
Or call rescue worker a "Pedophile"... Or run a pump-n-dump scam in on a crypto coin community...
pornel 5y ago
In the same report Kia Niro EV is the second most reliable car in the ranking: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/10-most-reliable-cars-a6569295379/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf... I think high reliability should be easier for EVs. Electric motors have fewer moving parts, and can be sealed. They don't need to withstand literally thousands of explosions per minute, or be open to outside air. It seems that Tesla is just an outlier with their panel gaps and over-engineered falcon wing doors.

convery 5y ago

Not to defend the company, but degraded performance of the AC (which they cover under warranty) is probably not what most think of when they hear "reliability"..

nobrains 5y ago
In hot areas they do. AC reliability is a serious decision maker in vehicle buying decision in hot geographies.
- cma 5y ago
  Teslas require AC when parked in some year ranges because they didn't use automotive-grade touchscreens (which began delaminating). This then apparently started making some accumulate mold in the AC system somehow.
justapassenger 5y ago
Drivetrain failures on modern cars are much less common, ICE or EV. Reliability nowadays is mostly about things like AC and all the tech on the cars. I’ve had friends lemon cars over rattling and squeak or radio cutting off randomly, that service wasn’t able to fix. My car is reliable, as in, it drives, applies nowadays mostly to old beaters, that you buy only to drive and fix anything with a duct tape.
- everdrive 5y ago
  >Drivetrain failures on modern cars are much less common Unless you drive a Chevy, Nissan, or Ford!
scrubs 5y ago
Same here: I would prefer Tesla to rate well on reliability but I can also tell you that in the mid-80s I spent many an hour explaining to a recent Detroit transplant that American car manufacturing quality needs serious improvent and that, no, Japanese quality isn't better mainly because of Japanese government support. Japan took our own Deming seriously; we didn't. Kia isn't Japanese. And Toyota has had problems since their zienth mid 90s. So nobody has got a lock on this. But one has gotta stay after it

rich_sasha 5y ago

Are these scores age-adjusted? If not this is particularly damning, as Tesla has one of the youngest fleets of cars out there.

CameronNemo 5y ago
I would be interested in something that focuses on recent Model 3s and Ys that are shipped. An old Model X has issues. Big whoop. They shipped a handful compared what they are now shipping.
lrem 5y ago
Model S was launched almost 10 years ago, that's enough to get a car out of shape. Then, we're talking about a first generation product of a company learning how to deal with any of that. I don't find it surprising they're not outstanding. In fact, I've seen a brand new Model 3 last year... The amount of manufacturing defects and design issues its owner found in the first week would be unthinkable for a Skoda Fabia. If Tesla wasn't leap and bounds ahead on the drivetrain (including batteries), they'd be on their way out.
- baybal2 5y ago
  Tesla drivetrain is certainly not leaps, and bounds ahead.
- lottospm 5y ago
  I don't mean to be flip, but I tend to check out white Teslas while driving by on the highway for rear panel gaps. White paint makes it especially obvious. I'd sy 80-90% are fine, but 1 in 10 or the gaps are so bad you can see the asymmetric gaps from 30+ ft away, most often Model Ys anecdotally. I even see what looks like added seals around sides of the rear hatch sometimes.
ajross 5y ago
It's a little unclear exactly what the scores even mean, Consumer Reports doesn't share their methodology. They're just unitless numbers supposed to represent the relative likelihood of needing a repair. But the sense of the description is that these are supposed to represent the risk for a new car, not an existing one. Really... this seems like a study designed to get clicks and not make real predictions. An actual result with units saying something like "16% of vehicles surveyed lost more than 1 day of utility due to maintenance problems in their first year" would be really interesting. No one has that, alas. So we all end up arguing about bad science. (My car is just great, FWIW.)

jpeter 5y ago

He will try to sell as much Tesla stock as he can ;)

dotancohen 5y ago

It's also worth noting without Tesla there would be almost no electric car market. The occasional Leaf is about as common as a Ferrari. It's also worth noting that Tesla is the first American car manufacturer to bring a vehicle to mass production in almost a century. The only other American company to come close would be DeLorean, who failed after two or three model years and less than 10,000 chassis I think. The previous one was Chrysler. Honestly, under-warranty misaligned panels and air conditioning complaints are not signs that the company is bad. They are signs that those with an interest in keeping us burning their oil are stooping to any low to kick up dirt on the company responsible for bringing electric cars to mass market appeal. My children smile and point in delight at every Tesla the see, like I used to do in the 1980 at Porches.

TheDesolate0 5y ago
LOL.
fishywang 5y ago
Comparing Tesla to Porsche is just ridiculous. Tesla might get some of the battery thing right, but they get so many car thing wrong. For example, that touchscreen. Using physical buttons and knobs to adjust things in the car means that the driver do not need to move their sight away from the road, and can do it blindly (because the buttons and knobs are physical that you can feel with your finger). With a huge touch screen and almost no physical buttons, you need to look at the screen almost every time you need to touch something to make sure that you are touching the right thing. This, and the whole "auto drive" shitshow, among a lot of other examples, shows how Tesla don't care about the safety of anyone outside of their cars. And for a car, safety should be treated with the foremost importance.
- RangerScience 5y ago
  Tesla owner. While driving, I rarely use the touchscreen, as the knobs + sticks that are available cover everything I need. Then, I find everything about the interfaces vastly, immensely superior to anything I've seen in any other car. Like - what do you even need, while driving? Music controls ("next", volume) and wipers, and blinkers? Done, and easily, and (nearly) clearly. The minimalism is (IMHO) beautiful and very effective. Otherwise, occasionally move the map around. Very rarely change destination address after I've started driving. One a season or something for other stuff (signing into Spotify), but that's pretty much always before I start any drive. What do you even do in you car, while driving, that needs tactile buttons that aren't already covered?

TheDesolate0 5y ago

Or call rescue worker a "Pedophile"... Or run a pump-n-dump scam in on a crypto coin community...

pornel 5y ago

In the same report Kia Niro EV is the second most reliable car in the ranking: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/10-most-reliable-cars-a6569295379/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf... I think high reliability should be easier for EVs. Electric motors have fewer moving parts, and can be sealed. They don't need to withstand literally thousands of explosions per minute, or be open to outside air. It seems that Tesla is just an outlier with their panel gaps and over-engineered falcon wing doors.