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I’ve been generally happy with my switch to Edge, but am not a huge fan of this. However, I think you may be overestimating how much a non-technical person woul

I’ve been generally happy with my switch to Edge, but am not a huge fan of this. However, I think you may be overestimating how much a non-technical person would dislike a feature like this. If anything, many would likely be happy to have layaway at their fingertips for all of their purchases.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
> If anything, many would likely be happy to have layaway at their fingertips for all of their purchases. A severe indictment of society’s innumeracy.
- quenix 5y ago
  How is that so?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Nobody lends money for free: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/introducing-buy-now-pay-later-in-microsoft-edge/td-p/2967030 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/introducing-... > shoppers break their purchases into equal installment payments, often interest-free, which can allow shoppers to get their purchase upfront, instead of having to wait until it’s paid in full. From the commenter JennaScout on the same page: > Looks like you neglected to mention the $4 flat fee in the article? >On a $35 purchase, that's 11% of the purchase cost spread over one month. Annualized, that's an astounding 250% APY. Even the most predatory credit cards top out at around 40% APY. >All you've done is just baked predatory loans into your browser. Honestly, you should be ashamed.
    - foldr 5y ago
      >Nobody lends money for free: Sure they do. Get a credit card with 0% interest on purchases and pay the balance before the interest free offer period expires. In many cases these cards to not charge any fee associated with the purchase. I understand that the credit card company will still make a profit in many cases – even when they don't manage to collect any interest or fees. But the loan is free from the cardholder's point of view.
- 13of40 5y ago
  It's the rational choice with inflation on the horizon, isn't it? Edit: No interest, but a flat fee, so possibly not worth it.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Depends what the interest rate is. In my 25 adult years of living in the US, I have seen no “buy now, pay later” scheme for small purchases with no collateral that results in the costs for the financing being less than the gains from investing. The only one that works is the 2%+ credit card rewards, and that is because people who are not paying with credit cards that earn rewards subsidize those who do because merchants do not offer a lower price for the non rewards payment methods.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- freefal 5y ago
  I wouldn’t use this because it just seems like a hassle but how are 4 interest-free installments worse than paying upfront? I’m unclear on Zip’s business model so appreciate I could be missing something here.
  - taotau 5y ago
    As well as the $4 fee mentioned, Zip and co also charge the merchant - in my country, 30 cents per transaction and 4-6% commission. Late payment interest is probably just gravy. With schemes like these, all customers ultimately end up paying for this regardless if you use the service or not as merchants will have to add the costs to their prices.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    As I noted in an adjacent comment, there is a $4 flat fee, and it is reasonable to assume the lender has expenses to pay, such as payroll and profit seeking investors, so there must be a cost to using their financing. Regardless of what the marketing says, nothing is ever “free”. Typically, these types of small time lending operations for retail purchases with no collateral depend on people without impulse control control and poor cash flow management buying things they should not and then collecting a slow drip of money from some portion of them who will not be able to pay it off for a long time. Not that I think it should be illegal, but it is generally considered to be a bottom feeder business, one that the esteemed people who work at Microsoft might be above. But apparently, they are not, and hence it is on Hacker News as a controversy.
    - gifnamething 5y ago
      > it is reasonable to assume the lender has expenses to pay, such as payroll and profit seeking investors, so there must be a cost to using their financing. >Regardless of what the marketing says, nothing is ever “free” In a world of low-interest rates, plentiful venture capital, and penetration pricing, things are often better than free.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
lukeschlather 5y ago
I think most of the non-technical people I know would look at this and say "why is Microsoft trying to feed me some weird payday loan scam?"
- bladegash 5y ago
  Really? Because Amazon has done the same thing (in a different context) and I haven't heard so much as a whimper.
  - jeltz 5y ago
    Don't know about Amazon since they are irrelevant in my country but Klarna has gotten a lot of heat for this here in Sweden. Maybe the American market does not care but there are markets where pay day loans will hurt your reputation a lot.
    - bladegash 5y ago
      These are not pay day loans. It is unsecured debt the same as a credit card. For a more specific example, this to me is no different than a Department store (e.g., Macy’s, Target, Sears, etc.) asking if you want to sign up for their store card when checking out. This isn’t new, at least in the US. It is just taking place via a new medium (it’s really not, but it’s new for Microsoft at least).
- azinman2 5y ago
  That feels very much like an ivory tower opinion. Payday loans, layaway plans, etc are very popular for many who live paycheck to paycheck.
  - wildrhythms 5y ago
    And they're still bad. What's your point?
  - smegger001 5y ago
    layaway is just stupid. if you can afford to make a monthly payment and get it in six months you can save the money for six months and collect the interest. living pay check to pay check doesn't enter into it. if you cant afford it you can't afford it.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

> If anything, many would likely be happy to have layaway at their fingertips for all of their purchases. A severe indictment of society’s innumeracy.

quenix 5y ago
How is that so?
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Nobody lends money for free: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/introducing-buy-now-pay-later-in-microsoft-edge/td-p/2967030 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/introducing-... > shoppers break their purchases into equal installment payments, often interest-free, which can allow shoppers to get their purchase upfront, instead of having to wait until it’s paid in full. From the commenter JennaScout on the same page: > Looks like you neglected to mention the $4 flat fee in the article? >On a $35 purchase, that's 11% of the purchase cost spread over one month. Annualized, that's an astounding 250% APY. Even the most predatory credit cards top out at around 40% APY. >All you've done is just baked predatory loans into your browser. Honestly, you should be ashamed.
  - foldr 5y ago
    >Nobody lends money for free: Sure they do. Get a credit card with 0% interest on purchases and pay the balance before the interest free offer period expires. In many cases these cards to not charge any fee associated with the purchase. I understand that the credit card company will still make a profit in many cases – even when they don't manage to collect any interest or fees. But the loan is free from the cardholder's point of view.
13of40 5y ago
It's the rational choice with inflation on the horizon, isn't it? Edit: No interest, but a flat fee, so possibly not worth it.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Depends what the interest rate is. In my 25 adult years of living in the US, I have seen no “buy now, pay later” scheme for small purchases with no collateral that results in the costs for the financing being less than the gains from investing. The only one that works is the 2%+ credit card rewards, and that is because people who are not paying with credit cards that earn rewards subsidize those who do because merchants do not offer a lower price for the non rewards payment methods.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
freefal 5y ago
I wouldn’t use this because it just seems like a hassle but how are 4 interest-free installments worse than paying upfront? I’m unclear on Zip’s business model so appreciate I could be missing something here.
- taotau 5y ago
  As well as the $4 fee mentioned, Zip and co also charge the merchant - in my country, 30 cents per transaction and 4-6% commission. Late payment interest is probably just gravy. With schemes like these, all customers ultimately end up paying for this regardless if you use the service or not as merchants will have to add the costs to their prices.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  As I noted in an adjacent comment, there is a $4 flat fee, and it is reasonable to assume the lender has expenses to pay, such as payroll and profit seeking investors, so there must be a cost to using their financing. Regardless of what the marketing says, nothing is ever “free”. Typically, these types of small time lending operations for retail purchases with no collateral depend on people without impulse control control and poor cash flow management buying things they should not and then collecting a slow drip of money from some portion of them who will not be able to pay it off for a long time. Not that I think it should be illegal, but it is generally considered to be a bottom feeder business, one that the esteemed people who work at Microsoft might be above. But apparently, they are not, and hence it is on Hacker News as a controversy.
  - gifnamething 5y ago
    > it is reasonable to assume the lender has expenses to pay, such as payroll and profit seeking investors, so there must be a cost to using their financing. >Regardless of what the marketing says, nothing is ever “free” In a world of low-interest rates, plentiful venture capital, and penetration pricing, things are often better than free.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago

lukeschlather 5y ago

I think most of the non-technical people I know would look at this and say "why is Microsoft trying to feed me some weird payday loan scam?"

bladegash 5y ago
Really? Because Amazon has done the same thing (in a different context) and I haven't heard so much as a whimper.
- jeltz 5y ago
  Don't know about Amazon since they are irrelevant in my country but Klarna has gotten a lot of heat for this here in Sweden. Maybe the American market does not care but there are markets where pay day loans will hurt your reputation a lot.
  - bladegash 5y ago
    These are not pay day loans. It is unsecured debt the same as a credit card. For a more specific example, this to me is no different than a Department store (e.g., Macy’s, Target, Sears, etc.) asking if you want to sign up for their store card when checking out. This isn’t new, at least in the US. It is just taking place via a new medium (it’s really not, but it’s new for Microsoft at least).
azinman2 5y ago
That feels very much like an ivory tower opinion. Payday loans, layaway plans, etc are very popular for many who live paycheck to paycheck.
- wildrhythms 5y ago
  And they're still bad. What's your point?
- smegger001 5y ago
  layaway is just stupid. if you can afford to make a monthly payment and get it in six months you can save the money for six months and collect the interest. living pay check to pay check doesn't enter into it. if you cant afford it you can't afford it.