5 ms·

Well, we need better stats; if unvaccinated are the reason why hospitals are actually overloading then we definitely should do something. Those stats seem not t

Well, we need better stats; if unvaccinated are the reason why hospitals are actually overloading then we definitely should do something. Those stats seem not to be clearly released anywhere (for people like me who do not know where to look). If vaccinated patients who need care for other ailments do not get help because mostly unvaccinated people are taking up beds and doctors, well... But is this the case or not? I cannot find data...

armchairhacker 5y ago
Unvaccinated individuals are taking up the hospital space. According to the CDC's most recent data unvaccinated individuals are 11 times more likely to require hospitalization. This is after the Delta variant*. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitali.... Also see this data from Minnesota which is very recent. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vbt.html https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vb... Anecdotal articles I read reinforce this. The worst I've heard is that 30%-40% of patients in various hospitals are vaccinated. Which sounds bad, except these numbers are in places where 80%-90% of the adult population is vaccinated, so 10% is taking up two-thirds of hospital space. Additionally, most of the people who are hospitalized and vaccinated are older individuals, and they still typically spend less time and recover better than unvaccinated younger individuals. * There was a recent article, "Hospitalizations Rising Among Fully Vaccinated in US, Fauci says", which speculates that this data is outdated. But it publishes no statistics to back up this claim. Frankly this is kind of misleading: of course vaccine efficacy wanes, the question is whether it's enough to make a significant impact. Even then, you can bring back efficacy with a booster. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hospitalizations-rising-fully-vaccinated-us-fauci-says-rcna5907 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hospitalizations-...
- tata71 5y ago
  > unvaccinated individuals are 11 times more likely to require hospitalization Next up: increased likelihood of hospitalization of other choices that aren't choices for a minority of those groups that everyone wants to demonize, like the obese.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Arnt 5y ago
    The stigma isn't not so much about increased likelihood of hospitalisation. It's about decreased likelihood of hospitalisation for things like cancer. I mention cancer because two people IRL have mentioned cancer operations to me. IMO if obesity took so much of the hospitals' resources that they had to defer cancer operations, then the obese would get a considerable stigma.
    - tata71 5y ago
      What percent of people hospitalized with COVID are overweight/obese?
      - Arnt 5y ago
        I've seen data on that somewhere, and IIRC it's one of the factors that would be significant if the simple single bit "vaccinated or not?" didn't make everything else fade into the noise. Look at https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33932335/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33932335/ for example. So and so many "per cent increase", while lack of vaccination causes "factor of x" increases and fuck the per cent.
      - spurgu 5y ago
        In Finland it was over 50% last time I checked (BMI of 25+). Or it might've been deaths. In any case a significant number.
- Arnt 5y ago
  https://www.kbv.de/media/sp/2021-11-19_Corona_Report.pdf https://www.kbv.de/media/sp/2021-11-19_Corona_Report.pdf has current statistics for Germany, where the author lives (and I do, too). As I read that, German hospitals would have a significant but not unmanageable problem without the unvaccinated, with >1% of hospital beds taken up by covid patients. >1% is enough that the hospitals planners need to consider the matter.
  - _Microft 5y ago
    Here is the website to find newer issues of this report in the future. It seems to be updated weekly: https://www.kbv.de/html/corona-report.php https://www.kbv.de/html/corona-report.php
- angelzen 5y ago
  "10% is taking up two-thirds of hospital space". This is incorrect, by a large margin. There is a separate resource that tracks hospital bed use by covid status. Right now indicates 1074 out of 7327 beds are occupied by covid patients. The Minnesota breakdown of hospitalization cases is vax 216 / unvax 493. The sum is not 1074, but we can adjust using the ratio. We end up with 764 beds used by covid unvaccinated individuals out of 7327 total, for a 10% of the total hospital capacity. I cannot find resources with precise data on what the other 90% of the beds are used for (other than 5% are unused), but from an late Aug article: "Minnesota’s hospitals report they are at 92% capacity, including patients with COVID-19, respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), traumatic injuries and other medical complications." One further context point: there are 5,900,000 people living in Minnesota. https://mn.gov/covid19/data/response-prep/response-capacity.jsp https://mn.gov/covid19/data/response-prep/response-capacity.... https://www.startribune.com/wintertime-virus-keeps-minnesota-hospitals-busy-during-summer/600091301/ https://www.startribune.com/wintertime-virus-keeps-minnesota...
nathanaldensr 5y ago
Who is "we" and what is the "something" you propose "we" do?

armchairhacker 5y ago

Unvaccinated individuals are taking up the hospital space. According to the CDC's most recent data unvaccinated individuals are 11 times more likely to require hospitalization. This is after the Delta variant*. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitali.... Also see this data from Minnesota which is very recent. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vbt.html https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vb... Anecdotal articles I read reinforce this. The worst I've heard is that 30%-40% of patients in various hospitals are vaccinated. Which sounds bad, except these numbers are in places where 80%-90% of the adult population is vaccinated, so 10% is taking up two-thirds of hospital space. Additionally, most of the people who are hospitalized and vaccinated are older individuals, and they still typically spend less time and recover better than unvaccinated younger individuals. * There was a recent article, "Hospitalizations Rising Among Fully Vaccinated in US, Fauci says", which speculates that this data is outdated. But it publishes no statistics to back up this claim. Frankly this is kind of misleading: of course vaccine efficacy wanes, the question is whether it's enough to make a significant impact. Even then, you can bring back efficacy with a booster. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hospitalizations-rising-fully-vaccinated-us-fauci-says-rcna5907 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hospitalizations-...

tata71 5y ago
> unvaccinated individuals are 11 times more likely to require hospitalization Next up: increased likelihood of hospitalization of other choices that aren't choices for a minority of those groups that everyone wants to demonize, like the obese.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Arnt 5y ago
  The stigma isn't not so much about increased likelihood of hospitalisation. It's about decreased likelihood of hospitalisation for things like cancer. I mention cancer because two people IRL have mentioned cancer operations to me. IMO if obesity took so much of the hospitals' resources that they had to defer cancer operations, then the obese would get a considerable stigma.
  - tata71 5y ago
    What percent of people hospitalized with COVID are overweight/obese?
    - Arnt 5y ago
      I've seen data on that somewhere, and IIRC it's one of the factors that would be significant if the simple single bit "vaccinated or not?" didn't make everything else fade into the noise. Look at https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33932335/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33932335/ for example. So and so many "per cent increase", while lack of vaccination causes "factor of x" increases and fuck the per cent.
    - spurgu 5y ago
      In Finland it was over 50% last time I checked (BMI of 25+). Or it might've been deaths. In any case a significant number.
Arnt 5y ago
https://www.kbv.de/media/sp/2021-11-19_Corona_Report.pdf https://www.kbv.de/media/sp/2021-11-19_Corona_Report.pdf has current statistics for Germany, where the author lives (and I do, too). As I read that, German hospitals would have a significant but not unmanageable problem without the unvaccinated, with >1% of hospital beds taken up by covid patients. >1% is enough that the hospitals planners need to consider the matter.
- _Microft 5y ago
  Here is the website to find newer issues of this report in the future. It seems to be updated weekly: https://www.kbv.de/html/corona-report.php https://www.kbv.de/html/corona-report.php
angelzen 5y ago
"10% is taking up two-thirds of hospital space". This is incorrect, by a large margin. There is a separate resource that tracks hospital bed use by covid status. Right now indicates 1074 out of 7327 beds are occupied by covid patients. The Minnesota breakdown of hospitalization cases is vax 216 / unvax 493. The sum is not 1074, but we can adjust using the ratio. We end up with 764 beds used by covid unvaccinated individuals out of 7327 total, for a 10% of the total hospital capacity. I cannot find resources with precise data on what the other 90% of the beds are used for (other than 5% are unused), but from an late Aug article: "Minnesota’s hospitals report they are at 92% capacity, including patients with COVID-19, respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), traumatic injuries and other medical complications." One further context point: there are 5,900,000 people living in Minnesota. https://mn.gov/covid19/data/response-prep/response-capacity.jsp https://mn.gov/covid19/data/response-prep/response-capacity.... https://www.startribune.com/wintertime-virus-keeps-minnesota-hospitals-busy-during-summer/600091301/ https://www.startribune.com/wintertime-virus-keeps-minnesota...

nathanaldensr 5y ago

Who is "we" and what is the "something" you propose "we" do?