5 ms·

The only other reference I can find to a Haskell XMPP server is your other comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27297137 https://news.ycombinator.com

The only other reference I can find to a Haskell XMPP server is your other comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27297137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27297137 Suffice to say; go and download a modern client like conversations.im and install ejabberd.im on a machine somewhere (or just use a throwaway account on a public server). The ecosystem has significantly improved since you last tried it... 15-20 years ago?

hnlmorg 5y ago
I'd already answered why I haven't > Maybe things have improved. But now that Google Talk, Facebook Messenger and others don't use XMPP any more, there is even less reason to bother trying. There's no shortage of chat protocols out there. As far as I'm concerned XMPP had it's chance and failed to deliver. While I'm not a fan of NIH (not invented here) syndrome, I'm even less of a fan of polishing a turd, because that's what leads us to monstrosities like STARTTLS, FTPES and so on and so forth.
- topdancing 5y ago
  I saw that, and it's simply a ridiculous and narrow minded viewpoint (even more so giving you're judging on purely historical data). I myself have rediscovered XMPP in the past two years (whilst using other tools like Matrix for other roles). The experience has revolutionized the way I view chats apps and even I host my own server on my own bare metal. The thing quite simply flies and is rock solid. I've also seen multihour WhatsApp and Signal outages go by whereas my friends and I have kept chatting on my reliable server. Never had an issue with STARTTLS. XMPP has silently evolved with the times and is far better than ever and should simply be the go to if you want to have control over your own comms.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    > I saw that, and it's simply a ridiculous and narrow minded viewpoint No need to be abusive. And lets not forget I'm basing my views on technical arguments, which is the opposite of being narrow minded. If you want to convince me that XMPP is worth trying then you need to provide me with technical reasons why I should. > I myself have rediscovered XMPP in the past two years (whilst using other tools like Matrix for other roles). The experience has revolutionized the way I view chats apps and even I host my own server on my own bare metal. Good for you. I wasn't suggesting nobody should use it though. I was only answering why I wouldn't be investing any more of my own finite amount of free time on it. That doesn't make me narrow minded. That just makes me busy enough that I need to make trade offs with my time. > The thing quite simply flies and is rock solid. I've also seen multihour WhatsApp and Signal outages go by whereas my friends and I have kept chatting on my reliable server. You can't compare a personal chat server for friends with a service with multi-national infrastructure used by millions. Problems grow exponentially with scale. > Never had an issue with STARTTLS. Then you've not spent enough time working with SMTP. :) But my point wasn't that STARTTLS sucks (though it does) but rather that STARTTLS should have been a warning sign that we need to abandon SMTP for something better. > XMPP has silently evolved with the times and is far better than ever and should simply be the go to if you want to have control over your own comms. Maybe but I haven't yet heard what any of these improvements are from you though. You've talked about how XMPP makes you feel, you've talked about how my previous post made you feel, but you've not actually talked about XMPP itself. For a technical conversation your reply lacked a lot of detail about the tech and a lot of abuse towards the person you're trying to persuade.
    - topdancing 5y ago
      > And lets not forget I'm basing my views on technical arguments You're not, you just simply have a strong opinion about something you haven't even tried (in the last decade) and thus basically know nothing about it. It's a view based on ignorance.
      - hnlmorg 5y ago
        You're just throwing insults around again and still haven't posted a single technical argument. You haven't even posted a rebuttal to my own technical points aside saying "it's better and you're a dick for not trying it" -- to paraphrase. And frankly it is my personal time we are talking about so it is none of your business whether I do decide to try it again or not (for reference, I'm busy working on open source projects to benefit people like yourself while also holding down a full time job and raising two young kids. So I make trade offs of what interests me and what doesn't or might cost my productivity. That is why I don't have time for all the fanciful projects that random people on HN claim I should be doing. Not that that is any of your business). If you want a grown up conversation then I'm happy to engage. But don't waste my time with petty insults and vague claims of greatness when you're unwilling or unable to add any technical detail to back up your bluntness.
        topdancing 5y ago
        > still haven't posted a single technical argument Have you even tried reading the original article that this thread is literally linked to at the very top?
        hnlmorg 5y ago
        Yes. It's an interesting article but doesn't specifically address the points I've been making and nor does it explain your point. - They talk about evaluating extensions but extensions was one of the things I raised as being a turn off. - They talk about clients, but there's no shortage of other chat solutions out there with decent clients these days. A list of platforms and links to clients doesn't tell me whether XMPP clients are buggy or well polished. Let alone why I should use XMPP over another solution with a well polished client. - They talk about privacy but even on XMPP that's not a given and there are other solutions out there if you're interested in privacy. - They talk about voice and video calls, and that at least is new from when I last tried. So that's one thing in favour of your point. However I already have a half a dozen platforms that do that -- platforms that already have my friends and family on it. Why should I set up another? And moreover how am I going to convince my friends and family to install this other chat client if you can't even convince me, a fellow technology geek, to try it? This is why I talk about XMPP missing the boat. People gave XMPP a try and moved on. And for all my asking, neither the article nor yourself can explain why XMPP is a cut above the rest. Worse yet, all the talk in the article of "evaluating extensions" and "reviewing privacy" doesn't convince me that it's any less annoying to set up either.

hnlmorg 5y ago

I'd already answered why I haven't > Maybe things have improved. But now that Google Talk, Facebook Messenger and others don't use XMPP any more, there is even less reason to bother trying. There's no shortage of chat protocols out there. As far as I'm concerned XMPP had it's chance and failed to deliver. While I'm not a fan of NIH (not invented here) syndrome, I'm even less of a fan of polishing a turd, because that's what leads us to monstrosities like STARTTLS, FTPES and so on and so forth.

topdancing 5y ago
I saw that, and it's simply a ridiculous and narrow minded viewpoint (even more so giving you're judging on purely historical data). I myself have rediscovered XMPP in the past two years (whilst using other tools like Matrix for other roles). The experience has revolutionized the way I view chats apps and even I host my own server on my own bare metal. The thing quite simply flies and is rock solid. I've also seen multihour WhatsApp and Signal outages go by whereas my friends and I have kept chatting on my reliable server. Never had an issue with STARTTLS. XMPP has silently evolved with the times and is far better than ever and should simply be the go to if you want to have control over your own comms.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  > I saw that, and it's simply a ridiculous and narrow minded viewpoint No need to be abusive. And lets not forget I'm basing my views on technical arguments, which is the opposite of being narrow minded. If you want to convince me that XMPP is worth trying then you need to provide me with technical reasons why I should. > I myself have rediscovered XMPP in the past two years (whilst using other tools like Matrix for other roles). The experience has revolutionized the way I view chats apps and even I host my own server on my own bare metal. Good for you. I wasn't suggesting nobody should use it though. I was only answering why I wouldn't be investing any more of my own finite amount of free time on it. That doesn't make me narrow minded. That just makes me busy enough that I need to make trade offs with my time. > The thing quite simply flies and is rock solid. I've also seen multihour WhatsApp and Signal outages go by whereas my friends and I have kept chatting on my reliable server. You can't compare a personal chat server for friends with a service with multi-national infrastructure used by millions. Problems grow exponentially with scale. > Never had an issue with STARTTLS. Then you've not spent enough time working with SMTP. :) But my point wasn't that STARTTLS sucks (though it does) but rather that STARTTLS should have been a warning sign that we need to abandon SMTP for something better. > XMPP has silently evolved with the times and is far better than ever and should simply be the go to if you want to have control over your own comms. Maybe but I haven't yet heard what any of these improvements are from you though. You've talked about how XMPP makes you feel, you've talked about how my previous post made you feel, but you've not actually talked about XMPP itself. For a technical conversation your reply lacked a lot of detail about the tech and a lot of abuse towards the person you're trying to persuade.
  - topdancing 5y ago
    > And lets not forget I'm basing my views on technical arguments You're not, you just simply have a strong opinion about something you haven't even tried (in the last decade) and thus basically know nothing about it. It's a view based on ignorance.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      You're just throwing insults around again and still haven't posted a single technical argument. You haven't even posted a rebuttal to my own technical points aside saying "it's better and you're a dick for not trying it" -- to paraphrase. And frankly it is my personal time we are talking about so it is none of your business whether I do decide to try it again or not (for reference, I'm busy working on open source projects to benefit people like yourself while also holding down a full time job and raising two young kids. So I make trade offs of what interests me and what doesn't or might cost my productivity. That is why I don't have time for all the fanciful projects that random people on HN claim I should be doing. Not that that is any of your business). If you want a grown up conversation then I'm happy to engage. But don't waste my time with petty insults and vague claims of greatness when you're unwilling or unable to add any technical detail to back up your bluntness.
      - topdancing 5y ago
        > still haven't posted a single technical argument Have you even tried reading the original article that this thread is literally linked to at the very top?
        hnlmorg 5y ago
        Yes. It's an interesting article but doesn't specifically address the points I've been making and nor does it explain your point. - They talk about evaluating extensions but extensions was one of the things I raised as being a turn off. - They talk about clients, but there's no shortage of other chat solutions out there with decent clients these days. A list of platforms and links to clients doesn't tell me whether XMPP clients are buggy or well polished. Let alone why I should use XMPP over another solution with a well polished client. - They talk about privacy but even on XMPP that's not a given and there are other solutions out there if you're interested in privacy. - They talk about voice and video calls, and that at least is new from when I last tried. So that's one thing in favour of your point. However I already have a half a dozen platforms that do that -- platforms that already have my friends and family on it. Why should I set up another? And moreover how am I going to convince my friends and family to install this other chat client if you can't even convince me, a fellow technology geek, to try it? This is why I talk about XMPP missing the boat. People gave XMPP a try and moved on. And for all my asking, neither the article nor yourself can explain why XMPP is a cut above the rest. Worse yet, all the talk in the article of "evaluating extensions" and "reviewing privacy" doesn't convince me that it's any less annoying to set up either.