5 ms·

I'm a little confused about the author's form of depression. He seemed to be able to still experience positive emotions and feelings. I don't mean to dismiss or

I'm a little confused about the author's form of depression. He seemed to be able to still experience positive emotions and feelings. I don't mean to dismiss or invalidate his experience but I think depressive periods brought on by a real factor in life, say a personal hardship or stressor (in his case it seemed like work) are very, very different than chronic treatment resistant depression with anhedonia. One of the hardest symptoms of depression to treat is anhedonia, meaning blunted or no responses to positive emotions. Having severe anhedonia is both difficult to treat pharmacologically and therapeutically. I'm in the same boat as this author with habits/productivity, but with severe anhedonia, that only gets you so far. You can't use cheat codes, you only really know what to avoid. Since you don't really respond to rewards or dopamine hits everything is kind of messed up. You can maintain a momentum and it's better than sinking into oblivion but it always just kind of feels like treading water because the alternative is worse. I have to force myself to do everything, even things I "like" doing and it's very exhausting. So anyway glad that this author found a way out of his situation but just as an alternative viewpoint this form of depression is more common and has a better prognosis. Some people have other forms of depression for which this approach is lacking something because if you don't naturally feel positive emotions regardless of what's going on (and regardless of treatment modality, hence treatment resistant) stuff gets pretty messed up. You can change your actions and habits but not how you feel and if you're always trying to compensate by not having an innate positive feeling or drive about something you can get a momentum but then you're stuck there. It's better than the alternative and you make peace with it but it will always be kind of a broken system.

rl3 5y ago
I recall Robert Sapolsky saying that anhedonia is a "retreat into the rational mind". That doesn't sound so bad until you've experienced it. It's a deficit of life at the most fundamental perceptual level. I prefer sorrowful depressive states, because at least you're alive even if the pain is crippling. Anhedonia? The thing crippling you is mercurial, illusory. It's an absence, not a presence.
- Baeocystin 5y ago
  I've dealt with anhedonia most of my life. I would not say that I prefer sorrowful states; pain is crippling across the board, and you cannot live in such a state chronically in the same way as you can in an anhedonic one. But I fully agree with you about it being a deficit, an absence. Large portions of the human experience are simply cut off from you, and it isn't something I would wish on anyone.
  - cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
    I've made peace with it but human language is very odd. I still use terms such as "like/love" "miss you" "looking forward to" but I'm cut off from the emotions behind it. Most people I know well know this and I've explained it to them but it does trip me up at times because it feels dishonest.
    - stavros 5y ago
      I think that happens to everyone. I think most times people say they're "looking forward to seeing you" do it out of politeness, not an overwhelming feeling of anticipation.
- cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
  I don't prefer depressive states but I feel like a lot of anhedonic states border on disassociation for me and I'm praised for it. I'm in a state right now like the article author in that I'm doing all these good habits. I find it annoying when people comment on it and it often comes off as patronizing. I'm not doing it for attention or praise (and that doesn't really affect me), again, I'm doing it because I have to keep treading water. It leads to this terrible dynamic where I don't like reaching out to someone when I'm doing poorly but I also don't like reaching out to someone when I'm doing "well" - which means that I'm doing all the actions that one is to be praised for in "treating" depression but not feeling any relief whatsoever. It's painful to have people praise me or say I'm "strong" for what is a purely a survival mechanism, it's this or ending up physically abused in the psych ward.
- 5y ago
froh 5y ago
Richard Davidson's work helped me see depression as an inability to mentally generate, maintain or perceive positive emotion, from bad to worst. There was a period in time I could perceive them, but not maintain let alone generate them. And what got me back on track was 7000 steps and strictly down regulating social media feeds and learning a few self regulating tricks and awareness of the brain going funky to then apply the self regulating tricks (therapy). The 7000 steps alone got me back to a better sleep cycle, the complete pack to a good sleep cycle. https://books.google.de/books?id=HrWquMzPvwcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=richard+davidson+depression+emotional+life+of+your+brain&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiY47ihtqb0AhU7SvEDHch_A8UQ6AF6BAgHEAM#v=onepage&q=depression%20emotional%20&f=false https://books.google.de/books?id=HrWquMzPvwcC&printsec=front...
- cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
  Would you say that you had bad habits with the social media that you had to break kind of like a mild "addiction"? A lot of people with anhedonia have had wires crossed due to things like this. In my case it wasn't PAWS or anything like that for me but I had a lot of psych meds forced on me as a teenager and young adult which could have had an effect. In fact it's been kind of hard to get psych treatment because the assumption often is that there is very strong comorbidity between addictive behaviors and long term mental illness but for me I've never had issues with habits/behavior like that and having to reprogram my brain after.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
I'm curious if you have ever tried a nutritional approach to anhedonia.
- cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
  Absolutely. When I say treatment resistant I have done everything out there and then some.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    Thank you. May I ask what you've tried nutritionally?
    - alvarlagerlof 5y ago
      It's not that easy
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        I'm not claiming it's easy. Just trying to learn more about a topic that interests me.
    - cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
      Diet wise, I've been vegan for most my life and gluten free for a year. I rarely have added sugars and I seem to respond better to less carbs but oils can also be tough on me other than MCT so I don't say keto. My diet still could be better but no added cholesterol, dairy and gluten and minimal sugar so I think I'm doing good. i try to eat blueberries, matcha, and walnuts when I can for the antioxidant benefits. I supplement food based C, D+k, iron as well as a methylated B complex with extra methylated riboflavin + benfotiamine + 15mg l-methylfolate + b12 (in sublingual form). Magnesium malate, Zinc carnosine and vegan DHA + EPA and some form of glutathione I have on hand. Try to do PQQ, selenium, CoQ10 daily as well. Not daily but fairly regularly with breaks or every other day: TUDCA, reshi, lion's mane, AHCC, cordyceps. On and off, ALCAR, ALA. I've had good success with antioxidants like dragon's blood and shilajit (when I say success in terms of pain/energy, not mood) but these days I keep it simple just with megadosing vitamin C every so often have experimented with ashwaghanda/bacopa, not for me, still sometimes take ashwaghanda but rarely. Currently giving Polygala tenuifolia another whirl, despite all the hubub doesn't seem to help much so my next new experiment may be trying low dose lithium orotate again.
seangp 5y ago
The author is actually female and, surprisingly, ends the article indicating that she is not out of the situation. The depression is still lurking but she has a better understanding of what’s going on.
jmcgough 5y ago
> seemed to be able to still experience positive emotions and feelings. Not saying it's the case here, but there's more flavors of depression than just major depressive disorder. There's a secondary form called atypical depression that has a few different features - you can still experience positive emotions and feelings, but those feelings are pretty fleeting.
barbazoo 5y ago
Reading the post, I felt somewhat stupid for not having been able to use my intellectual capacity to get me out of my slump myself. But then I realized that what I was experiencing was probably a lot different than what they experienced.

rl3 5y ago

I recall Robert Sapolsky saying that anhedonia is a "retreat into the rational mind". That doesn't sound so bad until you've experienced it. It's a deficit of life at the most fundamental perceptual level. I prefer sorrowful depressive states, because at least you're alive even if the pain is crippling. Anhedonia? The thing crippling you is mercurial, illusory. It's an absence, not a presence.

Baeocystin 5y ago
I've dealt with anhedonia most of my life. I would not say that I prefer sorrowful states; pain is crippling across the board, and you cannot live in such a state chronically in the same way as you can in an anhedonic one. But I fully agree with you about it being a deficit, an absence. Large portions of the human experience are simply cut off from you, and it isn't something I would wish on anyone.
- cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
  I've made peace with it but human language is very odd. I still use terms such as "like/love" "miss you" "looking forward to" but I'm cut off from the emotions behind it. Most people I know well know this and I've explained it to them but it does trip me up at times because it feels dishonest.
  - stavros 5y ago
    I think that happens to everyone. I think most times people say they're "looking forward to seeing you" do it out of politeness, not an overwhelming feeling of anticipation.
cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
I don't prefer depressive states but I feel like a lot of anhedonic states border on disassociation for me and I'm praised for it. I'm in a state right now like the article author in that I'm doing all these good habits. I find it annoying when people comment on it and it often comes off as patronizing. I'm not doing it for attention or praise (and that doesn't really affect me), again, I'm doing it because I have to keep treading water. It leads to this terrible dynamic where I don't like reaching out to someone when I'm doing poorly but I also don't like reaching out to someone when I'm doing "well" - which means that I'm doing all the actions that one is to be praised for in "treating" depression but not feeling any relief whatsoever. It's painful to have people praise me or say I'm "strong" for what is a purely a survival mechanism, it's this or ending up physically abused in the psych ward.
5y ago

froh 5y ago

Richard Davidson's work helped me see depression as an inability to mentally generate, maintain or perceive positive emotion, from bad to worst. There was a period in time I could perceive them, but not maintain let alone generate them. And what got me back on track was 7000 steps and strictly down regulating social media feeds and learning a few self regulating tricks and awareness of the brain going funky to then apply the self regulating tricks (therapy). The 7000 steps alone got me back to a better sleep cycle, the complete pack to a good sleep cycle. https://books.google.de/books?id=HrWquMzPvwcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=richard+davidson+depression+emotional+life+of+your+brain&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiY47ihtqb0AhU7SvEDHch_A8UQ6AF6BAgHEAM#v=onepage&q=depression%20emotional%20&f=false https://books.google.de/books?id=HrWquMzPvwcC&printsec=front...

cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
Would you say that you had bad habits with the social media that you had to break kind of like a mild "addiction"? A lot of people with anhedonia have had wires crossed due to things like this. In my case it wasn't PAWS or anything like that for me but I had a lot of psych meds forced on me as a teenager and young adult which could have had an effect. In fact it's been kind of hard to get psych treatment because the assumption often is that there is very strong comorbidity between addictive behaviors and long term mental illness but for me I've never had issues with habits/behavior like that and having to reprogram my brain after.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

I'm curious if you have ever tried a nutritional approach to anhedonia.

cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
Absolutely. When I say treatment resistant I have done everything out there and then some.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  Thank you. May I ask what you've tried nutritionally?
  - alvarlagerlof 5y ago
    It's not that easy
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      I'm not claiming it's easy. Just trying to learn more about a topic that interests me.
  - cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
    Diet wise, I've been vegan for most my life and gluten free for a year. I rarely have added sugars and I seem to respond better to less carbs but oils can also be tough on me other than MCT so I don't say keto. My diet still could be better but no added cholesterol, dairy and gluten and minimal sugar so I think I'm doing good. i try to eat blueberries, matcha, and walnuts when I can for the antioxidant benefits. I supplement food based C, D+k, iron as well as a methylated B complex with extra methylated riboflavin + benfotiamine + 15mg l-methylfolate + b12 (in sublingual form). Magnesium malate, Zinc carnosine and vegan DHA + EPA and some form of glutathione I have on hand. Try to do PQQ, selenium, CoQ10 daily as well. Not daily but fairly regularly with breaks or every other day: TUDCA, reshi, lion's mane, AHCC, cordyceps. On and off, ALCAR, ALA. I've had good success with antioxidants like dragon's blood and shilajit (when I say success in terms of pain/energy, not mood) but these days I keep it simple just with megadosing vitamin C every so often have experimented with ashwaghanda/bacopa, not for me, still sometimes take ashwaghanda but rarely. Currently giving Polygala tenuifolia another whirl, despite all the hubub doesn't seem to help much so my next new experiment may be trying low dose lithium orotate again.

seangp 5y ago

The author is actually female and, surprisingly, ends the article indicating that she is not out of the situation. The depression is still lurking but she has a better understanding of what’s going on.

jmcgough 5y ago

> seemed to be able to still experience positive emotions and feelings. Not saying it's the case here, but there's more flavors of depression than just major depressive disorder. There's a secondary form called atypical depression that has a few different features - you can still experience positive emotions and feelings, but those feelings are pretty fleeting.

barbazoo 5y ago

Reading the post, I felt somewhat stupid for not having been able to use my intellectual capacity to get me out of my slump myself. But then I realized that what I was experiencing was probably a lot different than what they experienced.