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I don’t believe objective measures of intelligence tell you all that much about someone. There are plenty of extremely intelligent people who for various reaso

I don’t believe objective measures of intelligence tell you all that much about someone. There are plenty of extremely intelligent people who for various reasons accomplish nothing and plenty of dropouts bringing enormous value to the world.

alex_sf 5y ago
It’s not solely sufficient, but absolutely the baseline for excellence in any technical field.
sokoloff 5y ago
I don’t think objective measures of physical strength tell you much about someone either, but if you’re testing strength to find the strongest people (for whatever reason), I’d still recommend using standardized methods.
WalterBright 5y ago
How many dropouts have successfully designed a jet engine? any of the critical parts on a rocket? a suspension bridge? a building more than 10 stories high? a submarine hull? a utility powerplant?
- nitrogen 5y ago
  How many have been given the opportunity to do so? Could a pure apprenticeship model without universities (but still with lots of theory) work for engineering professions?
  - b9a2cab5 5y ago
    Lambda School shows it doesn't work for software engineering. A so-called "apprenticeship" model for something like mechanical engineering would basically be the exact same set of (difficult) math and physics courses but without the garbage breadth requirements, which doesn't exactly sound attractive to dropouts.
    - alphabettsy 5y ago
      Or maybe Lambda school doesn’t work?
    - nitrogen 5y ago
      without the garbage breadth requirements, which doesn't exactly sound attractive to dropouts. Idk, I can imagine a class of "dropout" who would find that very appealing. And I've worked with devs who used Lambda or other bootcamps to transition from another technical/professional career into software, so it's not a completely useless model.
boardwaalk 5y ago
Society doesn't operate on the level of outliers and anecdotes, though. This seems like a common mistake people make. Making small changes to how well we're educating people over large numbers and over time will make big differences.
rsj_hn 5y ago
> I don’t believe objective measures of intelligence don’t tell you all that much about someone. Unfortunately that's not true. And we have a lot of data that this isn't true. I recommend reading "The Ape That Understood the Universe" for an overview https://www.amazon.com/Ape-that-Understood-Universe-Culture/dp/1108425046 https://www.amazon.com/Ape-that-Understood-Universe-Culture/... Part of the problem here is that people feel qualified to weigh in with their feelings of how they want the world to be, completely ignoring all the evidence and data. It's that type of confident denial of reality that is at the heart of this UC decision "Well, my uncle Jim is really smart and he was always bad at tests!" That's basically the level of discourse happening here when making public policy, and it's shameful.

alex_sf 5y ago

It’s not solely sufficient, but absolutely the baseline for excellence in any technical field.

sokoloff 5y ago

I don’t think objective measures of physical strength tell you much about someone either, but if you’re testing strength to find the strongest people (for whatever reason), I’d still recommend using standardized methods.

WalterBright 5y ago

How many dropouts have successfully designed a jet engine? any of the critical parts on a rocket? a suspension bridge? a building more than 10 stories high? a submarine hull? a utility powerplant?

nitrogen 5y ago
How many have been given the opportunity to do so? Could a pure apprenticeship model without universities (but still with lots of theory) work for engineering professions?
- b9a2cab5 5y ago
  Lambda School shows it doesn't work for software engineering. A so-called "apprenticeship" model for something like mechanical engineering would basically be the exact same set of (difficult) math and physics courses but without the garbage breadth requirements, which doesn't exactly sound attractive to dropouts.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    Or maybe Lambda school doesn’t work?
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    without the garbage breadth requirements, which doesn't exactly sound attractive to dropouts. Idk, I can imagine a class of "dropout" who would find that very appealing. And I've worked with devs who used Lambda or other bootcamps to transition from another technical/professional career into software, so it's not a completely useless model.

boardwaalk 5y ago

Society doesn't operate on the level of outliers and anecdotes, though. This seems like a common mistake people make. Making small changes to how well we're educating people over large numbers and over time will make big differences.

rsj_hn 5y ago

> I don’t believe objective measures of intelligence don’t tell you all that much about someone. Unfortunately that's not true. And we have a lot of data that this isn't true. I recommend reading "The Ape That Understood the Universe" for an overview https://www.amazon.com/Ape-that-Understood-Universe-Culture/dp/1108425046 https://www.amazon.com/Ape-that-Understood-Universe-Culture/... Part of the problem here is that people feel qualified to weigh in with their feelings of how they want the world to be, completely ignoring all the evidence and data. It's that type of confident denial of reality that is at the heart of this UC decision "Well, my uncle Jim is really smart and he was always bad at tests!" That's basically the level of discourse happening here when making public policy, and it's shameful.